blickstein@eiffel.DEC (Dave Blickstein) (03/18/85)
>In article <793@utcsri.UUCP> elf@utcsri.UUCP (Eugene Fiume) writes: >> >> [] >> >>As with most figures who appear larger than life, JH was overrated, and >>by the looks of things, still is: >>> >>> Simply put, Hendrix invented modern electric guitar technique. >>> >>Is there anything but "modern" electric guitar technique? The word >>"technique" wrt musical instrument playing implies discipline, mastery >>of fundamentals, etc. Few [electric] guitarists can claim to possess >>such skills. Three "modern" exceptions: Ry Cooder, Richard Thompson, >>Mark Knopfler. >> Perhaps you'd agree but I think your list has so many omissions as to make it pointless. Even according to your definition there are probably dozens of other "exceptions". Depending on where you draw the line for "mastery" and "discipline", my own personal opinion is that the two of the three you've mention don't qualify. I admire both Mark Knopfler and Ry Cooder but neither are very technically advanced players in terms of "chops". However, they are both highly original stylists and posess and equally important skill that I can only characterize as "expression". Townsend is another example. I have dozens of musician friends who could probably play Knopfler, Cooder and Townsend note-for-note but none of them could WRITE anything as good as what these guys have produced. On the other hand, there are players with incredible chops who lack the originality and expression that these guys have. One guy who comes to mind is Yngwie Malmsteem (not a household name). He has all the whammy bar tricks, the harmonics tricks and is probably the fastest (and cleanest) rocker on the earth, but so far he hasn't produced much that's very original or expressive. Malmsteen isn't even a good example. There are probably a zillion heavy metal players with excellent mastery of the basics and discipline who just aren't INTERESTING. I think there are lots of people who have made great contributions to modern electric technique: Les Paul (for the instrument and for the initial exploration of its possibilities), Hendrix (for discovering the uses of effects like feedback, wah and other effects boxes), Edward Van Halen (for finding new ways to play the guitar like his two-hand tapping and for the enormous box of goodies usually referred to as Eddie-tricks (bar tricks, pick scrapes, harping, artificial harmonics (some of which he invented, others of which he perfected)), Adrian Belew (for his mastery of effects that allows him to make any sound he can imagine), and the list goes on.... Dave Blickstein (UUCP) {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|ucbvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-orphan!blickstein (ARPA) BLICKSTEIN%ORPHAN.DEC@DECWRL.ARPA
elf@utcsri.UUCP (Eugene Fiume) (03/22/85)
[]
In the last installment of this discussion, Dave Blickstein criticised
a list of guitarists I gave in an old message for being incomplete. Of
course I agree completely.
In his message, he pointed out that many guitarists are easy to duplicate
technically (which is, of course, what most beginning guitarists do), but
evade artistic duplication. Again I agree, and several good examples
come to mind in other forms of guitar music, modern or otherwise.
Some time ago, I talked about John Fahey and obliquely contrasted his
technical prowess to Leo Kottke's. While it is clear that Kottke advanced
far beyond the teachings of Fahey technically, no one, not even Kottke, can
match Fahey's sense for traditional guitar music.
Similarly, Julian Bream ranks pretty low in classical guitar technique when
compared to the likes of John Williams, Christopher Parkening, and John Mills.
But more classical guitarists I know want to sound like Bream than anyone.
And who can forget Michael Hedges, a man who is very much outside the normal
idea of acoustic guitar technique. (Do yourself a favour and buy his
_Aerial Boundaries_ album on Windham Hill.) The same goes for Egberto
Gismonti (on ECM); everything he's done is exotic, exhilarating, and
absolutely unique. I've wasted many hours trying to imitate him...
Eugene Fiume
U of Toronto
{decvax|allegra}!utscri!elfLewisLazarus.es@XEROX.ARPA (03/28/85)
...Julian Bream ranks pretty low in classical guitar technique... ------------------------------------- I guess I don't know that much about classical guitar technique, but I've known quite a few classical guitarists, and I have never heard anyone criticize Bream's technique. In fact, the only criticism I have heard has been to the effect that his style is too heavily biased toward technical, rather than musical, accomplishment. This is a point of view I do not happen to share, but neither do I know of any technical weakness in his approach, or of any difficulties in the repetoire that are beyond his ability. Why do you rank him "pretty low?" Lewis Lazarus Xerox Los Angeles, Ca.
steiny@scc.UUCP (Don Steiny) (04/01/85)
> > > >In article <793@utcsri.UUCP> elf@utcsri.UUCP (Eugene Fiume) writes: > >> > >> [] > >> > >>As with most figures who appear larger than life, JH was overrated, and > >>by the looks of things, still is: > >>> > >>> Simply put, Hendrix invented modern electric guitar technique. > >>> > >>Three "modern" exceptions: Ry Cooder, Richard Thompson, > >>Mark Knopfler. > >> > > > I think there are lots of people who have made great contributions to > modern electric technique: Les Paul (for the instrument and for the > initial exploration of its possibilities), Hendrix (for discovering > the uses of effects like feedback, wah and other effects boxes), Edward > Van Halen (for finding new ways to play the guitar like his two-hand tapping > and for the enormous box of goodies usually referred to as Eddie-tricks > (bar tricks, pick scrapes, harping, artificial harmonics (some of which > he invented, others of which he perfected)), Adrian Belew (for his > mastery of effects that allows him to make any sound he can imagine), > and the list goes on.... > > Dave Blickstein > Merle Travis deserves notice. He died in Oct. 1983. Besides being credited as popularizing they style of picking given his name, "Travis Picking," (the picking style used by Chet Atkins, Guy Van Duser, Merle Watson, Doc Watson, and many others) and writing many classic songs like, "9 pound hammer," and "16 tons," he invented the solid body electric guitar. According to Travis: It was in '48 . . . I was playing dances out in Placentia, California, with Cliffie Stone. That's when I designed the Fender Gutiar. I got the idea from the steel guitar. I thought, why can't you get the sustainability of notes out of an electric guitar like you can with a steel? So I built a solid-body electric guitar, the *first* one, with the keys all on one side like they are on a steel. So you don't have to reach over and tune. It's in the Country Music Hall of Fame in Nasville now Folk Music - More than a Song by Kristin Baggelaar and Donald Milton Thomas Y. Crowell Company (c) 1976 p. 382 -- scc!steiny Don Steiny - Personetics @ (408) 425-0382 ihnp4!pesnta -\ 109 Torrey Pine Terr. ucbvax!twg --> scc!steiny Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060 fortune!idsvax -/
LewisLazarus.es@XEROX.ARPA (04/02/85)
Bream was forced to change his technique sometime in the sixties due to some physical ailment or other. His concert performances suffered since (by that I mean he makes a lot of mistakes--I still enjoy his concerts). I rate him technically low only relative to the others I mentioned in that list. Bream himself envies John Williams' technique but I personally think Bream is much more *musical*. More specifically, it seems to be Bream's left hand (that which does the fingering for right-handed guitarists) that has gotten somewhat sloppy. His right hand tricks are wonderful. Even so, his right hand technique is very nonstandard (more like that of a folk guitarist's). I'm very strongly influenced by his approach too. By the way, most of the problems are edited out of his recordings (which are almost uniformly excellent). Like Glen Gould, Bream knows how to use the studio. Again (for what it matters), I strongly agree with the approach. The concert hall is a pretty dumb place for an instrument as intimate as the guitar. Please don't take offense at my slighting Bream. I'm just trying to report the facts. You may wish to pass this on to the people CCed in your message. I can't do it from here. Cheers, Eugene Fiume P.S. I know Glenn Gould is no longer with us, as they say, but I can't be bothered fixing up the tense problems with the sentence mentioning his name. -------------------------------------------- Eugene, Thank you for the informative response. Having never attended one of Bream's concert's, I was unaware of any difficulities in his performance. My impression has been based on his excellent recordings. Lewis Lazarus
elf@utcsri.UUCP (Eugene Fiume) (04/03/85)
[] > ...Julian Bream ranks pretty low in classical guitar technique... > > ------------------------------------- > > I guess I don't know that much about classical guitar technique, but > I've known quite a few classical guitarists, and I have never heard > anyone criticize Bream's technique. In fact, the only criticism I have > heard has been to the effect that his style is too heavily biased toward > technical, rather than musical, accomplishment. This is a point of view > I do not happen to share, but neither do I know of any technical > weakness in his approach, or of any difficulties in the repetoire that > are beyond his ability. Why do you rank him "pretty low?" > > Lewis Lazarus > Xerox > Los Angeles, Ca. > I answered this query privately some time ago, but for the benefit of other curious persons, I mentioned in my article that Bream's technique is sloppy only relative to the other guitarists listed in the article. On the other hand, I'd rather listen to Bream (live or recorded). For various reasons, Bream's left hand has gotten somewhat clumsier. This is evident in his live (guitar--he also plays lute) performances but not in his almost uniformly excellent recordings. He, like Gould, knows how to use the studio to great advantage. It's really too bad that some of his recordings (RCA, of course) from the 50's were so terribly engineered and pressed. He was at his absolute peak technically, and his subtle, intimate interpretations are gems. If there were more classical guitarists of his artistic qualities about, perhaps fewer student guitarists would sound so monotonic (monotimbral?) and mechanical. And if you are a beginning guitarist looking for an artistic role model, please consider choosing Bream or Angel Romero rather than Segovia (I can just hear the flames (:-) ), Williams, or Parkening. Eugene Fiume {decvax|allegra}!utcsri!elf