sahayman@watcgl.UUCP (Steve Hayman) (07/26/85)
I remember something coming up back when the USFL first got going - there were proposals that they merge with the Canadian Football League. At the time this was thought a silly idea since open-air Canadian stadiums are not the best places to be playing football in March. But now that the USFL is going to a fall schedule - why not a merger? For those of you unfamiliar with the CFL, it consists of 9 teams (Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, Winnipeg, Saskatchewan (Regina), Edmonton, Calgary and British Columbia (Vancouver)) that play in big stadiums with better crowds than the USFL draws. The CFL season starts in July and finishes with the Grey Cup in November. Sort of a summer-fall schedule. Obvious problems include the differences in rules (the Canadian field is larger, 3 downs etc etc) but, hey, if the USFL wants to distinguish itself from the NFL it ought to adopt the CFL rules which are generally acknowledged to result in a more exciting game. The other BIG problem is that the CFL is a Canadian institution, not to be tampered with lightly. (Notwithstanding the great number of American players in the league. But then there aren't any decent American players in the NHL :-) In 1974, when John Bassett (now of the T.B.Bandits) tried to bring a World Football League team to Toronto, the government threatened legislation to prevent this and so the Toronto Northmen became the Memphis Southmen. This is really a big stumbling block. Any combined league would have to be perceived as preserving the "Canadian" identity of the CFL. Said identity is somewhat of a joke - CFL teams are permitted a certain number of 'imports' and 'non-imports' - not "Canadians", 'non-imports'. Plus there are rules which make it difficult for a native Canadian quarterback to win a position on the team (apart from converting to a punter or something). One solution might be for the CFL champion to play the USFL champion in a sort of Super Duperbowl; both leagues could function independently during the regular season. Or maybe you wouldn't have full interlocking play - play teams in your own country more often than the foreign teams. This is just a thought. The CFL is going to survive whether or not the USFL lives or dies. Plus I'm confident that CFL teams are of at least equal calibre with most USFL teams. Plus CFL teams have 'tradition' and 'stability', two things that the USFL league lacks. Well, net.sport.football, what do you think? Would the North American Football League work? Canadians - what could we do to keep the CFL at least somewhat 'Canadian'? Americans (particularly in USFL cities) - would you go to see (say) the Oakland Invaders vs the Toronto Argonauts? (Note: The best team in baseball, the Toronto Blue Jays, are the worst draw on the road.) Food for thought. Go Concordes! (the only CFL team with a former U. of Waterloo Warrior...) Steve Hayman U. of Waterloo watmath!watcgl!sahayman
gdave@ubvax.UUCP (Dave Guertin) (07/30/85)
In article <2251@watcgl.UUCP> sahayman@watcgl.UUCP (Steve Hayman) writes: > >One solution might be for the CFL champion to play the USFL champion >in a sort of Super Duperbowl; both leagues could function independently >during the regular season. Or maybe you wouldn't have full interlocking >play - play teams in your own country more often than the foreign teams. This would never work, because of the vast differences in the rules, style of play and field size. Even if you could get both leagues to modify their rules there would probley be a big difference between the current CFL and NFL and all this would do is outrage and alienate current fans of both leagues (Does the USFL have any?). > >Well, net.sport.football, what do you think? Would the North American >Football League work? Canadians - what could we do to keep the CFL >at least somewhat 'Canadian'? Americans (particularly in USFL cities) - >would you go to see (say) the Oakland Invaders vs the Toronto Argonauts? Sounds interesting, but as I said above it wouldn't work. However if it was tried I certainly give it a good look just like I gave the USFL. Unfortunely the USFL lost!!!!
jeff@dciem.UUCP (Jeff Richardson) (08/06/85)
> I remember something coming up back when the USFL first got going - there > were proposals that they merge with the Canadian Football League. At the > time this was thought a silly idea since open-air Canadian stadiums are > not the best places to be playing football in March. > > But now that the USFL is going to a fall schedule - why not a merger? > .... > The other BIG problem is that the CFL is a Canadian institution, not > to be tampered with lightly. (Notwithstanding the great number of > American players in the league. > > Said identity is somewhat of a joke - CFL teams are permitted a > certain number of 'imports' and 'non-imports' - not "Canadians", > 'non-imports'. The Canadian identity of the CFL is not a joke. First of all, if I understand the import/non-import rule correctly, the only non-Canadians who qualify as non-imports are people who haven't played college football in the US. I'd be surprised if there were any such people in the CFL now. I think that the current import/non-import quotas achieve the desired goals (good quality football with a significant contribution from Canadian players) very well. If I were to suggest a change, it would be to allow more imports on the team, but only as substitutes for the imports that are on the team now. The current rules pretty well prohibit teams from keeping around American non-quarterbacks unless they know they want to use them as first-stringers, which leads to a ridiculously high attrition rate on each team. Regardless of where the players come from, there's still the Canadian identity because all of the teams are in Canadian cities, and we have the local and east-west rivalries. We love the Blue Jays and think of them as a Canadian team, even though they don't have a single Canadian player, though it would be nicer if they did. > Plus there are rules which make it difficult > for a native Canadian quarterback to win a position on the team > (apart from converting to a punter or something). I don't buy that. Despite what people say, a CFL team can never disadvantage itself by employing a Canadian at quarterback instead of an equally or less capable American. The "designated import" rule says something like, "each team is allowed N imports [I can't remember what N is, but it's around 15], at least one of whom is not in the starting lineup. One import player who will not be in the starting lineup must be named before the start of the game as 'the designated import'. The designated import can come into the game only as a replacement for another import, and the replaced import cannot return to the game unless he is the quarterback." Teams like to use as many imports as possible in the starting lineup, so this rule allows them to have imports as both the starting and backup quarterback without having to lose an import at another position. However, if one of their quarterbacks is Canadian, they can either forget about the designated import completely, in other words treat their Canadian QB as if he was an import, or they could have a designated import at another position, where they would otherwise have a Canadian. So it can still be an advantage to have a Canadian QB, but it's not as much of an advantage as having a good Canadian starting at another position, so that's probably why they try to convert the Canadian quarterbacks to other positions. However, I would still improve the designated import rule by removing the restriction that a replaced import non-quarterback cannot return to the game. That way having a Canadian backup QB would be a big advantage because the team could freely alternate import running backs or something like that, whereas with the current rule a designated import who is not a quarterback would likely ride the bench most of the time. > In 1974, when John Bassett (now of the T.B.Bandits) tried to bring a World > Football League team to Toronto, the government threatened legislation > to prevent this and so the Toronto Northmen became the Memphis > Southmen. This is really a big stumbling block. Any combined league > would have to be perceived as preserving the "Canadian" identity of the > CFL. Even though a long time has passed and we have a new government, American football executives will remember that and will likely not even think about going into Canada. > This is just a thought. The CFL is going to survive whether or not the > USFL lives or dies. Plus I'm confident that CFL teams are of at least > equal calibre with most USFL teams. Plus CFL teams have 'tradition' > and 'stability', two things that the USFL league lacks. All these things considered, what could the CFL possibly gain by taking in USFL teams? The CFL is one of the few major professional sports leagues that has a reasonable number of teams, and they don't need any more (except maybe one more in the east to balance out the divisions), especially if they're unstable. It certainly wouldn't increase CFL interest in Canada, and I don't think it would make significant gains in the US either. > Well, net.sport.football, what do you think? Would the North American > Football League work? It would probably work if the Canadian part of it was left alone, and if no more than 6 USFL teams were accepted, but it would not be an impovement over the present CFL. > Canadians - what could we do to keep the CFL > at least somewhat 'Canadian'? Leave it the way it is now, except for the change in the designated import rule that I suggested above. > Americans (particularly in USFL cities) - > would you go to see (say) the Oakland Invaders vs the Toronto Argonauts? > (Note: The best team in baseball, the Toronto Blue Jays, are the worst > draw on the road.) I don't think the Blue Jays are a poor draw because they're based in Canada. I think it's because they don't have any superstars (except Stieb, but I think fans go to see offensive superstars rather than defensive superstars) and they don't yet have the tradition that the American teams have. Anyway, I'm not all that keen on seeing the Oakland Invaders play the Argonauts here. Another question to ask American fans would be, "would you like to see pro football with Canadian rules played in your city?" The USFL can switch to Canadian rules whether they merge with the CFL or not. When the USFL moves to the fall it will be the same game as the NFL, but not as good. Maybe what they need to be succesful is a significantly different set of rules. Of course, this whole discussion is academic, because I'm sure the USFL owners can't afford what would likely be major renovations to their stadia, since the Canadian field is about 15 yards wider and 40 yards longer, counting end-zones. -- Jeff Richardson, DCIEM, Toronto (416) 635-2073 {linus,ihnp4,uw-beaver,floyd}!utcsri!dciem!jeff {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!dciem!jeff