dettelis@canisius.UUCP (Carl Dettelis) (01/29/86)
Subject: Super Bowl foulup Newsgroups: Net.sports.football At the end of the first half of the Super Bowl, it was mentioned that the referees made a mistake in allowing the Bears to kick the field goal. They said that since the Bears deliberately tried to stop the clock with 3 seconds to go, there should have been 10 seconds run off the clock. I dissagree with this. When Jim Mcmahon was takled, there were 18 seconds left on the clock. You would think that a team sould be able to line up and snap the ball in 18 seconds. The reason they couldn't was because there was a Patriot who deliberately held JM down after he was tackled, and a bigger reason was because there were Patriots in the Chicago backfield who were pushing Bears that were trying to huddle. For this reason, I feel that the clock should have been stopped with no penalty to the time clock assessed. -I was wondering what other people on the net thought about this. -Carl (maddog) Dettelis
ibyf@ihlpa.UUCP (Scott) (02/11/86)
Well, if its the play I'm thinking of, Mcmahon not only called the snap, but also threw the ball at the ground, out of bounds. Now, I've never heard of this 10 seconds off the clock rule, but any way you slice it, the Bears get to kick the F.G. If the Pats were off side, then the ball is moved and the Bears get one more play. If the Bears are off side, then since the half cannot end on an offensive penalty, they get a play. If the refs dont call either team off sides, then McMahon gets an intentional grounding penalty, and one more play. If they don't call anything, then its an incomplete pass, and stops the clock with three seconds left, and you guessed it, one more play. I credited McMahon with some quick thinking so that no matter what, they would get the F.G. in. I didn't think it was bad officiating at all Addison ihnp4!ihlpa!ibyf My brother? I always thought of him as mom and dad's science project.
borodkin@uiucdcsb.CS.UIUC.EDU (02/12/86)
> If the Bears are off side, then > since the half cannot end on an offensive penalty, they get a play. > > Addison > ihnp4!ihlpa!ibyf I think a half CAN end on an offensive penalty. An accepted defensive penalty extends a half. Stephen L. Borodkin USENET: ...!{pur-ee,ihnp4}!uiucdcs!borodkin CSNET: borodkin%uiuc@csnet-relay.arpa ARPA: borodkin@uiuc.arpa
alle@ihlpl.UUCP (Allen England) (02/13/86)
> Now, I've never > heard of this 10 seconds off the clock rule, but any way you slice it, > the Bears get to kick the F.G. If the Pats were off side, then the ball > is moved and the Bears get one more play. If the Bears are off side, then > since the half cannot end on an offensive penalty, they get a play. > Addison > ihnp4!ihlpa!ibyf The half cannot end on a *defensive* penalty is the actual rule. The half is allowed to end on an offensive penalty if the defense declines the penalty. Allen England ihnp4!ihlpl!alle
bert@ucla-cs.UUCP (02/13/86)
> Well, if its the play I'm thinking of, Mcmahon not only called the snap, > but also threw the ball at the ground, out of bounds. Now, I've never > heard of this 10 seconds off the clock rule, but any way you slice it, > the Bears get to kick the F.G. If the Pats were off side, then the ball > is moved and the Bears get one more play. If the Bears are off side, then > since the half cannot end on an offensive penalty, they get a play. If the > refs dont call either team off sides, then McMahon gets an intentional > grounding penalty, and one more play. If they don't call anything, then its > an incomplete pass, and stops the clock with three seconds left, and you > guessed it, one more play. I credited McMahon with some quick thinking > so that no matter what, they would get the F.G. in. I didn't think it > was bad officiating at all > > Addison > ihnp4!ihlpa!ibyf > > My brother? I always thought of him as mom and dad's science project. > you need to review the rules. the half cannot end on a DEFENSIVE penalty but can on an offensive one.
djm@rayssd.UUCP (Dan R. Murphy) (02/14/86)
> is moved and the Bears get one more play. If the Bears are off side, then > since the half cannot end on an offensive penalty, they get a play. If the > refs dont call either team off sides, then McMahon gets an intentional > grounding penalty, and one more play. If they don't call anything, then its > an incomplete pass, and stops the clock with three seconds left, and you > guessed it, one more play. I credited McMahon with some quick thinking > so that no matter what, they would get the F.G. in. I didn't think it > was bad officiating at all > Check your rulebook again. The half or the game CAN end on an offensive penalty. Also, just because you've never heard of the ten second rule means it doesn't exist? Your argument holds no water. What happened was the ref`s were correct in giving an illegal procedure penalty to Chicago. They then blew the call on the ten second rule. The league admitted to this at halftime. What you are saying here is almost as bad as some NE fans saying the outcome of the game would have been different if a few plays were changed (e.g. Morgan's drop). Dan Murphy Raytheon SSD Portsmouth, RI
ref0070@ritcv.UUCP (Bob Fortin) (02/14/86)
I thought the half couldn't end on a defensive penalty, but could end on an offensive play otherwise, the offense could keep getting extra plays if they commit a penalty intentionally when a play isn't working out.
bert@ucla-cs.UUCP (02/17/86)
> > Now, I've never > > heard of this 10 seconds off the clock rule, but any way you slice it, > > the Bears get to kick the F.G. If the Pats were off side, then the ball > > is moved and the Bears get one more play. If the Bears are off side, then > > since the half cannot end on an offensive penalty, they get a play. > > Addison > > ihnp4!ihlpa!ibyf > > The half cannot end on a *defensive* penalty is the actual rule. The half > is allowed to end on an offensive penalty if the defense declines the > penalty. > > Allen England > ihnp4!ihlpl!alle or, in this case, if the defense accepts the penalty.
tron@fluke.UUCP (Peter Barbee) (02/17/86)
In article <1103@ihlpa.UUCP> ibyf@ihlpa.UUCP (Scott) writes: > >the Bears get to kick the F.G. If the Pats were off side, then the ball >is moved and the Bears get one more play. If the Bears are off side, then >since the half cannot end on an offensive penalty, they get a play. If the What? The half can't end on a defensive penalty is the rule. But actually there is no rule about penalties and ends of halfs. It is merely logic. As the defensive team I would decline the penalty rather than allow the opposition an additional try. The opposite applies for the offensive team. If what Scott (or is it Addison?) says is true than it seems the offensive team would be sure to committ a penalty at the end of every half to get an extra play. Peter B
jmh@ltuxa.UUCP (Jon M. Hanrath) (02/18/86)
In article <1103@ihlpa.UUCP> ibyf@ihlpa.UUCP (Scott) writes: >Well, if its the play I'm thinking of, Mcmahon not only called the snap, >but also threw the ball at the ground, out of bounds. Now, I've never >heard of this 10 seconds off the clock rule, but any way you slice it, >the Bears get to kick the F.G. If the Pats were off side, then the ball >is moved and the Bears get one more play. If the Bears are off side, then >since the half cannot end on an offensive penalty, they get a play. If the >refs dont call either team off sides, then McMahon gets an intentional >grounding penalty, and one more play. If they don't call anything, then its >an incomplete pass, and stops the clock with three seconds left, and you >guessed it, one more play. I credited McMahon with some quick thinking >so that no matter what, they would get the F.G. in. I didn't think it >was bad officiating at all > > Addison > ihnp4!ihlpa!ibyf > >My brother? I always thought of him as mom and dad's science project. > Sorry, a half MAY end on an offensive penalty. It may not end on a defensive penalty. Otherwise, an offensive team could keep completing long passes and then smack someone illegally just to keep the half alive. Jon Hanrath ihnp4!ltuxa!jmh
michaelf@ism780 (02/19/86)
If what MacMahon did was legal, what is the sense of
conserving your timeouts if all you have to do is throw the ball
out of bounds and give up 5 yards. Why not throw
a hail mary pass and if it's dropped, punch someone in the head,
assume the penalty and try again?dettelis@canisius.UUCP (Carl Dettelis) (02/22/86)
I don't think that the question is weather or not the officials blew the 10 second rule, they did. I think the problem is whether the clock should have been stopped because the Patriots were delaying the game. Jim M. was tackled with 18 sec. left on the clock which is more than enough time to get a play off; however, the pats were in the Chicago backfield and one Pat even tried to hold Jim M. down after he was tackled in order to waste time. The officials, by missing the 10 sec. call were wrong, but the clock should have been stopped earlier after giving the Pats a reasonable time to set up (18 sec. is more than reasonable). So, the bottom line is the refs missed two calls which in effect canceled each other out and allowed Chicago to kick the field goal like they should have in the first place. - Carl Dettelis
muth@amdahl.UUCP (John A. Muth) (02/24/86)
In article <62100001@ism780>, michaelf@ism780 writes: > Why not throw > a hail mary pass and if it's dropped, punch someone in the head, > assume the penalty and try again? Hmmm. Interesting idea. Sounds like a perfect play for the Raiders. -- John A. Muth ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,sun,nsc}!amdahl!muth
silber@uiucdcsp.CS.UIUC.EDU (02/25/86)
The clock is restarted if the penalty is refused. (I think)