alb@alice.UUCP (09/03/83)
OK, we all know what happened. Now, what can we do? By ourselves, not one damn thing. Cut off their grain: Big deal. That didn't work before, why should it now? Cut off all trade: A slap on the wrist, but they'll get it from someone else. Every country in the world is crying for the U.S. to do something. Why don't they? The ONLY way that we can send a message to Russia is for EVERY country in the world to take action. If we ALL cut off all trade with them, THEN they'd get the picture!
franka@tekcad.UUCP (09/05/83)
#R:alice:-218400:tekcad:20100003:000:1408 tekcad!franka Sep 4 13:23:00 1983 OK, we all know what happened. Now, what can we do? By ourselves, not one damn thing. BULLSHIT!!! I liked George Will's suggestion which I heard today on David Brinkley's Journal, i.e., have the American government nationalize the debts to the eastern block countries (by buying them from the banks) and then forcing them into default. This can be done BY OUR OWN GOVERNMENT. It WILL have a devastating effect on the eastern-block economies (and may even cause a revolution here or there (no country is more than three meals away from a revolution)). This, however, will cost money. How willing are you right-wingers out there to shell out a few more tax dollars to pay for this sanction? No, I supposed not. Lets just go on with miniscule trade embargos and not letting their aircraft land in our country (which hasn't been allowed since Afghanistan, anyway). Oh yeah, and lets put on another grain embargo (I mean there ain't no farmers on the net). Heaven forbid that we do anything that costs ourselves anything. Frank Adrian p.s. I know this is probably not going to happen. We all know that the Chase Manhatten Bank and David Rockefeller are making too much green stuff on the interest for these loans, let alone the rest of the "humanitarian" loans we have given to the rest of the world (this is what I meant when I said that elected officials don't hold the REAL power in this country).
franka@tekcad.UUCP (09/05/83)
#R:alice:-218400:tekcad:20100004:000:387 tekcad!franka Sep 4 23:06:00 1983 Another quick note. Tonight on one of the half minute news promos I heard that Regan admitted that a US recon plane WAS flying in the vicin- ity of the eastern coast of Russia when the Korean jet was shot down. Maybe some of the confusion of the identity of the plane may be our own fault. Things are never as lily-white or jet-black as they seem, eh gang? Frank Adrian
rung@ihuxw.UUCP (09/06/83)
After several days of pondering a US response to this event, I have come to agree with Frank Adrian on what the ultimate US response should be (I say ultimate because I don't believe Reagan played his full hand in lst night's broadcast to the nation. I believe (and hope) he's got a better hand of cards). Having the American government nationalize the debts from the banks and then forcing them into default would create a crisis for the Soviet block. In addition to this, freezing all future credit to Soviet block contries indefinately would cripple them. let's face it, without western loans, the Soviet block governments would then have to survive on their own economies and we know they would have serious challenges doing this. What would be even more favorable is for the world community banks in Switzerland, West Germany, etc. to also follow similar pursuit. Even if the banks would nationalize the accounts, they surely could at the minimum freeze any future credit to any Soviet block country. Just think, with no working capitial from the Soviets (previously borrowed from the wester world), Poland, Cuba, Syria, Afganistan, etc., would be forced to survive on their own productivity instead of counting on the old Russian bear for support. (Maybe then they'd have to learn about something called free enterprises to continue to exist!) It seems to me that Reagan must have enough clout on the national level to talk the Rockerfellers and Chase Manhattens into this type of a sanction. And if the world leaders in the banking industry lead with such an example, will the rest of the world banking community follow? I don't know. But let's face it, grain embargos, technology cutoffs, landing restrictions in past have not impacting the Soviet Union enough to make any difference. If the US intends to make any dramatic impact, it has to respond with a dramatic plan of action. Reagan may have only played his first hand, but he can't wait too long to complete play if he intends to win the game(philisophically speaking). Pete Rung ihuxw!rung BTL, Naperville, Ill.
rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (09/09/83)
WRT denying all credit and money to the Communist "bloc", I believe that the current thinking is that this would provoke the Soviets into doing something extremely drastic (like nuking major cities), rather than getting them to cooperate with the west. What really scares me about this whole affair is an interview with Zbigniew Brezninski (close?) last night on ABC's Nightline program. I only saw a snippet of it, so others who saw more should probably comment further. Brezninski made a series of comments about *the inferiority of the Russian people as a race*, their need to cover up and lie, dating back even before Communist rule there. He gave two examples. The first involved Soviet denials of their massacre of Polish officers during WWII. The second involved Russian naval vessels in 1905 during the Russo-Japanese War. Traveling through the North Sea on their way to the Pacific (???) to fight the Japanese, they sank several British fishing vessels, denied it, and then claimed that they were attacked by Japanese warships in the North Sea. The believability of these stories is not the issue. The important factor here is the tone in which Brezninski spoke. He degraded the Russian people as a race. He called them innately inferior (or having feeling of innate inferiority). This sounds to me like war mongering, race hatred, etc. In other words, all of the fascistic tools that are used to incite the population with war fever. If memory serves, Brezninski was an advisor to the Carter administration, and is not associated with the current administration, so that makes this notion ever scarier. Any comments?
nrh@inmet.UUCP (09/10/83)
#R:alice:-218400:inmet:7800016:000:866 inmet!nrh Sep 10 00:50:00 1983 Nationalize the debts? Oh I'll bet Chase Manhattan would LOVE that! All this money that looks like it's about to be defaulted on by the eastern bloc countries, but, look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's .... The US taxpayer! How wonderful for the banks. Zillions of dollars of debt that will be made good by us, the taxpayers. I'm sure the banks would much prefer to have the cash than notes on Poland. What happens after we force the Soviets into default? The notes are paid off with pennies on the dollar (if that), and those banks that have been lending to them get off scot-free (not even a bit of tarnish on their reputations!) How good of you to volunteer my money for this crackpot scheme! I think Rockefeller would love the idea. The US taxpayer subsidizing Chase Manhattan! How lucky for him. And what a pity for the rest of us.