danc@tekecs.UUCP (Daniel Cobb) (09/16/83)
A recent article on the net was submitted by Rick Sample, in which
he reponded to comments I had made in a earlier article. Following
is the text:
In response to tekecs!danc:
You make several assertions that require substantiation.
1) "The list of SALT treaty violations by the Soviets is endless"
Really? I have heard that a CIA report on Soviet SALT
violations concluded that violations were about equal
(and fairly minor) on both sides.
2) "The number of people that have died at the hands of pro-west
dictators is totally overshadowed by the millions of people
that have been killed by the Soviets or governments the
Soviets have installed or support."
Can we see your figures on this? By my calculations, based on
the last ten years, it isn't quite so one-sided.
If you can show evidence that your claims are correct, please present
it. If you can't, you should state them as opinions, not as facts.
Rick Sample
First Item:
-----------
Rick, you are asking me for substantiation when you are countering my
assertion with hearsay,---"I have heard that a CIA report on Soviet
SALT violations concluded....." Gads, if you have such reliable info,
place it on the net. It seems strange to me that you attack me for a
method of presentation and then use the same method yourself. But your
first point is taken. I am endeavoring to compile that list and hope
to have ready within a few weeks. Meanwhile..get me a copy of the report.
Next Item:
-------
Deaths at the hands of the Soviets: I am not interested in only the
last ten years. Have you ever heard of the purges Stalin ordered? Does
a million dead impress you? 5 million? 10 million? Its history Rick. Not
hearsay. Not counting world wars, how about the invasion of Hungary?
Czechoslovakia? Afganistan? How about all those liberated people that have
died trying to flee their utopia, the Vietnamese boat people? Or those
that have died in the re-education camps that Vietnam operates? The Berlin
Wall? If any person dies while trying to flee a communist country, I hold
that country responsible, even if the death was accidental. How many persons
have died trying to flee France? Italy? USA? It is generally accepted, though
has not yet been proven, that the Soviet government ordered the death of the
Pope. Even if you have no interest whatsoever in the religious aspect, what
can be said for such a government? That they can be trusted?
AND PLEASE, update your files. The USSR has murdered 269 MORE.tim@unc.UUCP (Tim Maroney) (09/20/83)
The Soviet Union is a rotten country. We all know this. Let's
not forget, though, that when our system was only as old as theirs is
now, we owned many slaves and were committing genocide on the Indians,
not to mention being extremely expansionistic. I am not apologizing
for the Soviets' behavior; I am expressing my disgust at the
ridiculously self-righteous anti-Soviet slogans so many people are
spouting these days. If we judged ourselves by the same standards we
judged others, then this self-righteousness might vanish, and we
actually might be able to get something done with the real Soviet
Union, not the shadow union we have devised.
Many would like to destroy the Soviet Union now. If their
standards are honest, they would also have wanted to destroy the
United States in the nineteenth century.
___________
Tim Maroney
duke!unc!tim (USENET)
tim.unc@udel-relay (ARPA)
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hillrenner@uiucdcs.UUCP (09/22/83)
#R:tekecs:-210300:uiucdcs:29200020:000:307 uiucdcs!renner Sep 21 12:16:00 1983 Are landing rights denied to Mr. Gromyko himself, or to commercial Soviet-bloc aircraft? I seem to recall that he will be allowed to land provided that he travels in a military plane and lands at a military airbase; so far, the Soviets aren't interested in this option. What if he bought a ticket on TWA?
eich@uiuccsb.UUCP (09/26/83)
#R:tekecs:-210300:uiuccsb:11000026:000:49 uiuccsb!eich Sep 25 06:17:00 1983 Fine. Give me a time machine. That's silly.