tommyo@ihuxw.UUCP (10/28/83)
What I am still trying to understand is why in the world our boys in Lebanon weren`t armed. What good does it do to have a peacekeeping force placed in the middle of a war without having adequate protection? It`s like dropping a person from an airplane 20,000 feet in the air, and not giving them a parachute. Whether or not they should be there is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is they are there, and ought to be able to protect themselves. There was a report on the radio that Marines were able to spot snipers taking a position to fire on them, but couldn`t fire until they were fired at. Hey, I always let a killer have first crack at me before I defend myself. I don`t know who is running the show over there, but they ought to be a little more realistic. If we`re gonna have Americans over there, let`s protect them. The deaths of over 200 U.S. Marines should have never happened. I only hope we learn from this horrible incident and not let ourselves be ambushed again. Tom O`Connor
rao@utcsstat.UUCP (Eli Posner) (11/01/83)
Not only didn't they fire until fired upon, I saw a report in which Marines were being fired upon and could SEE the snipers but were refused permission to retaliate!!!!
notes@fortune.UUCP (11/01/83)
#R:ihuxw:-54800:fortune:17300006:000:293 fortune!norskog Oct 31 17:23:00 1983 The Lebanon bombings are an indication of incompetency in Middle Eastern warfare. The Israelis would never have put 40% of their forces in one building. Lance Norskog Fortune Systems megatest!fortune!norskog hpda!fortune!norskog harpo!... sri-unix!... amd70!...
renner@uiucdcs.UUCP (renner ) (11/02/83)
#R:ihuxw:-54800:uiucdcs:29200024:000:651 uiucdcs!renner Nov 1 13:37:00 1983 /***** uiucdcs:net.politics / fortune!notes / 12:08 am Nov 1, 1983 */ The Lebanon bombings are an indication of incompetency in Middle Eastern warfare. /* ---------- */ I do not believe it is fair to accuse the Marines of incompetency in this case (which may or may not be what this response is doing). I believe that the Marines would wanted a large, secure perimeter, loaded weapons for guards, etc. But if they did this they would look less like a peacekeeping force and more like soldiers subject to the War Powers act -- and this, plainly, would not do. The incompetency is political, not military. Scott Renner ...pur-ee!uiucdcs!renner
ofut@gatech.UUCP (11/05/83)
Funny ow not only are OUR marines bunglers with security, but
so are the french and now the Israelis!! Funny, the Israelis didn't
look real incompetent during the initial invasion while creaming
Syria - barbaric perhaps, but certainly not incompetent!!
--
Jeff Offutt
School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA
CSNet: Ofut @ GATech ARPA: Ofut.GATech @ Csnet-Relay
uucp: ...!{akgua,allegra,rlgvax,sb1,unmvax,ut-ngp,ut-sally}!gatech!ofutrao@utcsstat.UUCP (Eli Posner) (11/08/83)
BARBARIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????!!!!!!!!! You have one hell of a nerve to call the Israelis barbaric! The Israeli people, and the soldiers in particular, are the most moral people in the world. Oh, the Syrians aren't barbaric, of course , right?! Let's not forget the PLO, they're saints! Second of all, I know it's not a contest, but the Israelis didn't "bungle" as much as the Americans! At least we stopped the truck from getting inside the building where it would've caused a geometricly higher casualty count. Your comments were not only wrong , they were stupid, (nothing personal) as well as uninformed. Eli
rigney@uokvax.UUCP (11/09/83)
#R:ihuxw:-54800:uokvax:5000005:000:1351 uokvax!rigney Oct 30 13:32:00 1983 I've heard that troops aren't allowed to carry a round chambered in their rifles, but the time spent chambering probably couldn't have made the difference in stopping the deathtruck, if 5 shots couldn't stop it 10 probably couldn't either; what was needed was something considerably in excess of a M-16. I've also heard that the reason the Marines weren't better protected (strong barricades, fortified, dug in, etc.) is to avoid giving the impression that they're there to stay. In other words, since it is a temporary mission there is much reluctance to put up permanent construction and turn their base into a fort. As well, apparently the Lebanese Army troops manning some of the checkpoints are inexperienced and let the truck (and many others) through. Once the truck had penetrated the outermost checkpoints it could get close enough to ram through the inner obstacles (manned by marines) too quickly for the marines to take effective action. The marines have never liked the position they were given, it's a lousy area to defend, without sufficient clear zones, overlooked by "hostile"-held points, etc. But they weren't given a choice, the marine philosophy isn't really geared to standing around and getting shot, their training is to take obstacles regardless of cost. Carl ..!ctvax!uokvax!rigney ..!duke!uok!uokvax!rigney
walsh@ihuxi.UUCP (11/09/83)
The most moral people in the world??? Based on whose morals? Theirs? Let's not go overboard! B. Walsh