pvp@ihuxl.UUCP (01/23/84)
>It is not possible to end starvation by sending food to the hungry -- one >simply ends up with many more hungry people. This is no kindness. The >solution lies in helping the hungry people to self-sufficiency, by teaching >methods of birth control and improved agriculture. This the United States >does, and should do more of. > >Scott Renner >{ihnp4,pur-ee}!uiucdcs!renner This has got to be the most asinine statement I've ever seen in net.politics. While millions of children die each year due to malnutrition world-wide, the warehouses of the United States bulge with excess food purchased from our farmers by our government to keep the prices high. And along comes Mr. Renner to pontificate that feeding the hungry does them no kindness! Yes, Mr. Renner, we know that simply sending food to the hungry does not make them self-sufficient. All it does is keep them alive, so that perhaps they may learn to be self-sufficient someday. But apparently you would prefer them to be self-sufficiently dead. Serves them right for not practicing birth-control, doesn't it? So just let those babies starve to death, it will teach them a lesson. And just keep warehousing all that milk and cheese, so that we keep the prices high. After all, if we gave it away to feed the dying babies in sub-saharan Africa, then they wouldn't have to buy it, and the prices would fall. Tsk, tsk, then how would they ever learn to be self-sufficient? I hope you don't profess to be a Christian, Mr. Renner. You are a disgrace to the human race. Phil Polli ihuxl!pvp
alle@ihuxb.UUCP (01/25/84)
Phil, You let your emotions get in the way of your logic on this issue. If you feel so strongly that simply feeding the hungry people solves the problem, then why don't you take $10K from your salary and feed 100 children/year in the "sub-Sahara"? If all of the others on the net who also believe that this would solve the problem did this, then thousands of children could be "kept alive". If you profess to be a Christian, then this would certainly fit into the philosophy of "selling your possessions and giving to the poor". I don't believe that feeding these people would solve their problem. When something is simply given, then there is no incentive to ever improve "your lot in life". All that results from feeding hungry people is more hungry people. Allen England at AT&T Bell Laboratories, Naperville, IL ihnp4!ihuxb!alle
wjr@rayssd.UUCP (01/26/84)
Phil, When was the last time a country appreciated our help?? Lets see, in almost every case (and there are exceptions) the country in question says they would like our help. We supply them with material they say thank you now please go screw yourself. It's always nice to be thanked in such a delightful manner. I also realize that a lot of the problem is involved with politics...so SCREW them...keep politics out of it...Let's take care of our own first. Flame Away, Bill Ramey
sebb@pyuxss.UUCP (S Badian) (01/26/84)
I got news for you - we(as in the US for all non- US people reading this) have more than enough for ourselves and lots of others. The amount of food your family alone wastes is probably enough to feed a small African country! Personally I don't blame those third world countries one little bit. We shit (excuse my vulgarity) all over the poorer people in this world, our own included. We make it sound like they're all poor because they like it or because it's some subversive plot to take our resources and make us feel like fools. Well, it just ain't so. We take more out of all the countries than we ever give to them in aid. We're laughing all the way to the bank. If you were to listen to some of the UN proceedings on multi-national corporations it would make you wonder who is running these companies. They go in and rape a country and could care less what's left after they're done. Until the US starts to promote some sort of control of its own companies in these countries we will get no thanks. I say we have to promote these controls because you can be damn sure many of the lawmakers in these countries are being paid off so they keep it nice and cushy for our big conglomerates. National policy may say one thing. But when we allow our economic representatives to run over poor countries I begin to believe another. We brought in unions and tougher environmental laws and minimum wage so our own people don't suffer. But who the hell cares about all those starving Asians and Africans. Sharon Badian
david@randvax.ARPA (David Shlapak) (01/27/84)
Mr. Polli ---
I trust that YOU, sir, "do not profess to be a Christian;" else, have
you forgotten "Judge not that ye not be judged?"
No matter what your opinion or what the topic, to term someone whom you
have never met "a disgrace to the human race" is undeniably immature
and wholly despicable.
I would take the time to pick your rather shallow argument apart, but
it appears that the target of your invective has done so quite effectively
already. So, I will simply state that I am deeply offended by the tone
of your message and hope that in the future you will take the time to
think about what you say before inflicting such ad hominim garbage on
the net.
If you are a Christian, sir, may I suggest that you pray to your God
for forgiveness of your pride and arrogance. For all appearances, you
need it more than most.
--- das
ps -- To all concerned: I originally tried to mail this message, but
my system didn't care for Mr. Polli's address. Sorry.renner@uiucdcs.UUCP (01/28/84)
#R:ihuxl:-85400:uiucdcs:29200062:000:882 uiucdcs!renner Jan 27 09:15:00 1984 /***** uiucdcs:net.politics / pyuxss!sebb / 6:07 pm Jan 26, 1984 */ > > I got news for you - we(as in the US for all non- > US people reading this) have more than enough for ourselves > and lots of others. The amount of food your family alone > wastes is probably enough to feed a small African country! My family is not quite so large as you seem to think, nor do we waste entire trainloads of food. Or perhaps you know of some very small African countries. No doubt you were referring to "small African families." In that case you are quite probably correct. If you want to come scrape out my garbage can and mail the proceeds to them, you are quite welcome. But that won't solve the problem of hunger in the undeveloped countries. I maintain that nothing will, except helping them to become self-sufficient in food. Scott Renner {ihnp4,pur-ee}!uiucdcs!renner
edhall@randvax.ARPA (Ed Hall) (01/28/84)
---------------------------------- Many African nations have a thriving agriculture industry, growing things like coffee, cocoa, and sugar--for export. This way they can get dollars and other currecies from the industrialized world, with which to buy arms and other things their governments feel necessary. Of course, the folks at home may be starving because they can hardly eat the particular crops they are growing. This is a gross simplification of a highly complex problem. Yes, there are multi-national corporations involved here as well as corrupt governments. And there are some areas that actually are populated beyond their capacity for food production. But in the majority of cases hunger is a political and economic problem, not just a matter of overpopulation. As to the matter of education and overpopulation: even in the third world there is a negative correlation between education, and family size and hunger. The reasons are pretty obvious: education allows a more effective use of labor (and in the third world the size of one's family has a lot to do with one's productive ability), enables the employment of technology (e.g. irrigation), allows for better communication and coordination, and last but not least, gives people something to do besides making babies (and enables them to stop if they want to). Once again, a simplification. The need for tools and education has been known for as long as aid programs have existed; this business about `liberal hand-outs' is a crock--sort of a spillover from the criticisms of welfare here at home. But a starving person is not about to plow a field. In areas of mass starvation the dead are in some ways the lucky ones, as the survivors must contend with the environment of death, disease, retarded development, and crowding. Many of the surviving children will be permanently brain-damaged or crippled by malnutrition. These people need to be fed before they can be taught how to feed themselves. -Ed Hall decvax!randvax!edhall