keithl@vice.UUCP (02/13/84)
It's amazing that the ultimate expression of grass-roots politics involves
trying to prevent the folks at Diablo ( who supply the electricity that
runs menlo70!sander's terminal ) from doing their job. Perhaps he wishes to
drive away the semi-competent people running the plant, leaving complete
incompetents in their place.
I would have thought such expression would involve BUILDING alternate energy
sources, finding economical ways to save energy, and changing the monopolistic,
government-caused rate system that makes inefficient power generation seem
profitable. Can't get on TV that way, though.
As it is, the price of generated electricity will go up a little, inducing
BC Hydro to build a few more dams on the Frazier river.
(sarcasm mode on )
This will cause maps to change, and allow Sanders' employer (the USGS) to
ask for more money from Congress, to pay for changing those maps, and pay
for the more expensive electricity that his terminal uses. HE doesn't pay
for it...except at tax time.
(sarcasm off)
Oh, we should make the bad-nasty old utilities pay for it all? Well, the
utilities are mostly owned by pension funds, which means "punishing" the
utilities economically can be a backdoor way of punishing the elderly. There
is no "them" to punish separate from "us". When you set out to hurt an
organization you end up hurting HUMAN BEINGS, and not the ones you want to
hurt, unless you are careful. Blocking a gate isn't being careful.
Mr. Sanders, if you are flamed for your actions, might it not be because a
portion of the intelligent, ethical, educated people on the net think what
you are doing is WRONG? Perhaps the funny feeling you have is simply your
conscience.
--
Keith Lofstrom
uucp: {ucbvax,decvax,chico,pur-ee,cbosg,ihnss}!teklabs!vice!keithl
CSnet: keithl@tek
ARPAnet:keithl.tek@rand-relaycdanderson@watarts.UUCP (02/23/84)
Going to the Diablo site in Calif. or Darlington in Ont. are not the
only actions in an effective anti-nuke (or pro soft energy) campaign as
keithl@vice has correctly suggested. However, does this negate the action of
doing so and did he suggest that this was the only thing he was engaged in?
As someone who has been involved in pro soft-energy education for the
past five years and who has also done Civil Disobedience, I know that such
actions can be both strategically and morally important/necessary as different
people have different capacities and reasons for carrying out that which they
believe in.
Regarding flooding of the Fraser R. system in B.C., I hope it never
happens. Doing so would wipe out some fabulous wildlife preserves and scenery
and perpetuate our energy wasteful lifestyles. One of the reasons why we are
less cost-competitive with the Europeans is that our industries require 40%
more energy/dollar's worth of goods produced.
We should treat the question of energy requirements like we are the
debate on HUNGER, i.e. if people are starved for energy should we just hand
them more, or do we encourage them to become more self-sufficient?
This is especially important if the tapping of new energy sources will result
in the long term damage resulting from mega-hydro projects.
From the not-so-passive solar collector of
Cameron Anderson
watarts!cdandersonsanders@menlo70.UUCP (Rex Sanders) (03/04/84)
Well, I will try to reply to exactly the kind of sarcastic, dirty-fighting message I feared in my original posting. Mr. Lofstrom's message is indented. It's amazing that the ultimate expression of grass-roots politics involves trying to prevent the folks at Diablo ( who supply the electricity that runs menlo70!sander's terminal ) from doing their job. Perhaps he wishes to drive away the semi-competent people running the plant, leaving complete incompetents in their place. Civil disobedience is not the ultimate expression of grass-roots politics - only a last resort, when all else has failed. As far as driving the competent people away - why would they leave? They believe in what they are doing. Anyway, if I and others are successful, even the incompetents won't be around to run the plant. I would have thought such expression would involve BUILDING alternate energy sources, finding economical ways to save energy, and changing the monopolistic, government-caused rate system that makes inefficient power generation seem profitable. Can't get on TV that way, though. Well, I wasn't on TV. I and 4 friends were arrested at 5:30 am at least 3 miles from the nearest TV camera. Several cars tried to run us down until the PG&E helicopter landed. We are working on building alternate energy sources. However, because PG&E has 4.9 BILLION dollars tied up in Diablo Canyon, and because the Reagan Administration is borrowing 1 out of 4 federal budget dollars to prepare for war, interest rates are so high as to make alternates nearly infeasible. We have been, and continue to work to change the rate system. However, Diablo is an *imminent danger* - changing the rate structure won't stop it from going on-line. As it is, the price of generated electricity will go up a little, inducing BC Hydro to build a few more dams on the Frazier river. Huh? What will cause the price of electricity to go up? Why would BC Hydro need to build more dams when there is still excess capacity, nationwide and within PG&E? (sarcasm mode on ) This will cause maps to change, and allow Sanders' employer (the USGS) to ask for more money from Congress, to pay for changing those maps, and pay for the more expensive electricity that his terminal uses. HE doesn't pay for it...except at tax time. (sarcasm off) Is this crap really necessary? If you want to argue the economics of nuclear power, don't forget the *huge* subsidies hidden around every corner. Other points: the terminal is mine, at home - I'm paying for the electricity. I don't get my electricity from PG&E - the City of Palo Alto supplies it from hydro plants and has many conservation and solar programs going to reduce even that. I don't work for the map-making people - we got a 50% budget cut last year. Oh, we should make the bad-nasty old utilities pay for it all? Well, the utilities are mostly owned by pension funds, which means "punishing" the utilities economically can be a backdoor way of punishing the elderly. There is no "them" to punish separate from "us". When you set out to hurt an organization you end up hurting HUMAN BEINGS, and not the ones you want to hurt, unless you are careful. Blocking a gate isn't being careful. I'm not willing to let PG&E endanger my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness so that the stupid pension fund managers can keep their jobs. The handwriting has been on the wall for years for nukes. I think the far greater harm will be done if I don't try to stop Diablo from going on-line. Mr. Sanders, if you are flamed for your actions, might it not be because a portion of the intelligent, ethical, educated people on the net think what you are doing is WRONG? Perhaps the funny feeling you have is simply your conscience. -- Keith Lofstrom You are entitle to your opinion - don't speak for others. If I am wrong, prove it. If there is something right about Diablo Canyon, nuclear power, our present form of decision making in these areas, show me. So far, all you've shown me is sarcasm. -- Rex decvax!ucbvax!menlo70!sanders