mzp@uicsg.UUCP (03/22/84)
#R:uok:6600030:uicsg:17600015:000:1428 uicsg!mzp Mar 17 22:12:00 1984 [(wocka wocka wocka) < . . . . o .] You were going fine there for a while, but then you seem to have become confused. First of all, Trinity (Alamagordo) was a plutonium bomb, while Hiroshima was U235 and Nagasaki was another plutonium. Therefore Hiroshima was the unknown quantity. This subject, for some strange sadistic reason, has been of some interest to me, and I have done a bit of research in the area. Most of this leads me to the conclusion that Truman was a dink. Of course everybody knows that already. What about the August 7, 1945 papers that read 'Japan stunned by atom ruin.' Sure the Japs knew what they had been hit with- something which they could never hope to deal with. Also, they had no idea that we only had one more bomb. Three days is not a very long time to allow a country to contemplate surrender, particular Japan at that juncture. There was incredible pressure, even considering the possible outcome, for a continued fight. Yet the emperor managed to convince the military that the battle was lost. There was no need for the second bomb. It was a useless act committed by a useless president. And frankly, I could never buy that Nagasaki was nuked to prevent the Russians from becoming involved, since if Truman had been that intent on keeping the Russians out, he would not have given them Berlin. Direct flames to /dev/null Mark Papamarcos ihnp4!uiucdcs!uicsg!mzp
alan@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Alan Algustyniak) (03/24/84)
<Do the KGB spies on the net know what this line is for?>
On the 25th anniv. of the surrender of the Japanese, i saw a tv
program on the local PBS station in Chicago, and distinctly remember
a few things it said.
It said that after the dropping of the first bomb, the war cabinet
got together to review what info they had about it, and to decide what to
do. The subject of surrender in the face of the bomb was brought up by
one military man, but was overwhelmingly squashed.
After the 2nd bomb fell, they convened again, and discussed
surrender again. This time, everyone was against surrender except the
same man who was for it earlier and the Emperor. And since the Emperor
overruled everyone else, Japan surrendered.
Everyone on the cabinet was, until the first bomb, solidly in
favor of fighting to the last man, even if victory or conditional
surrender were clearly not possible. Even the Emperor felt strongly in
this way until the first bomb was dropped, and probably until the 2nd
was dropped. The vast majority of those making the decisions were
in favor of fighting to the last man, even after the 2nd bomb was dropped.
Note that this precludes the stmt: the Emperor convinced the
miliatry that the war was lost. One, everyone in the cabinet already
understood that the war was lost. Two, the Emperor convinced no one to
change his mind about continuing to fight anyway; he simply overruled them
[Excuse me for possible slight inaccuracies in this story, as it's been a
long time; but i know i have the core ideas correct, as i have repeated
this story several times in the intervening years]
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Also, i never read the the Japanese were ever aware of how many
bombs the USA actually had; I have read (somewhere, a long time ago) that
the answer to that question has never been made public, and is still
classified info.
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My uncle Rich, who fought the Japanese on some of the islands, and
was part of the occupation forces, said that he remembers that a couple
of months after the surrender, The Stars and Stripes had an article
revealing the planned invasion of Japan, giving the groups assigned to
each wave, and the estimated casualties. He says that he remembers that
the first three waves were expected to incur enormous casualties, but i
don't remember the percentage that he gave me.
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The dropping of the bombs not only saved over a million American
lives, and American resources, it saved far more Japanese lives and
Japanese resources. I suspect that most of the Japanese born in Japan
under 35 years of age, would never have been born had America not dropped
the bombs.
I am reminded of a story James Michner(?) told in his book about
returning to the battlefields in the Pacific. He was talking to 2 Japanese
officers (I seem to remember that they were very high ranking, but i'm
not sure), and they told him that they, along with others, were glad that
America dropped those bombs. It saved their lives and the lives of their
loved ones. The war was lost in any case, but the Emperor wanted them to
die; the bombs saved them.
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Alan Algustyniak (sdccsu3!sdcrdcf!alan)
(ucbvax!ucla-vax!sdcrdcf!alan) (allegra!sdcrdcf!alan)
(decvax!trw-unix!sdcrdcf!alan) (cbosgd!sdcrdcf!alan)wmartin@brl-vgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (03/27/84)
For a fictional treatment of what might have happened if the Allies had had to invade the Japanese home islands instead of using the atomic bomb, read THE BURNING MOUNTAIN by Alfred Coppel. Though somewhat marred by an excessive concentration on a romantic subplot, I still thought it was worth reading. Will Martin