mjk@tty3b.UUCP (Mike Kelly) (02/12/84)
Imagine the following situation (directed at Americans): - The U.S. Army has seized control of the government. - There is a curfew every night. For the most part, only soldiers are on the street. Others who are caught out are shot at random. Every morning the bodies are found, often beheaded or mutilated in other ways, on the streets and in the alleys. Those who have protested to the police quickly disappeared, and are either never found or are found dead. - No one you know has a job. Every union hall has been bombed, and many of the union leaders have been killed or are in hiding. - There are no unemployment or welfare benefits. - Most people are hungry; many are malnourished. - Churches are still around, but the largest, the Catholic Church, has been harrassed by the government. The Archbishop of New York, a critic of the government, was shot and killed at St. Patricks while saying mass. Many other priests and nuns have been killed. - The universities are closed. Many teachers have been labelled "communists" and disappeared; most people assume they are dead. What would you do? Would you hide and hope things got better? Would you try to fight back, even though you knew it would probably mean your death? Would you try to leave the country, even though you have no money and you could be killed if caught? These are decisions that everyone in El Salvador faces every day, because this is a fairly accurate picture of the situation in that country. Those to whom the opposition are "communists" should seriously ask themselves what their reaction would be to this kind of situation in this country. And then ask themselves how they feel about our country supporting this reign of terror in our names. Mike Kelly ..!ihnp4!tty3b!mjk
jbray@bbncca.ARPA (James Bray) (02/14/84)
Very well put indeed. And I will tell you some of what you can do, for those who are interested. You can of course periodically express your outrage to your congresspeople. You can also go to demonstrations: one happens at least once a year in DC, usually with a West Coast site also. And you can send money to groups like Medical Aid to El Salvador, often referred to as the 'Ed Asner group' because he is one of the main sponsors. I have been sending them money for years, which they use to buy medical supplies and send them down to the liberated zones in El Salvador, where the FMLN-FDR is in control. They are a very good group. Reach them by Medical Aid for El Salvador 1509 Crossroads of the World Los Angeles, California 90028 or phone (213) 461-4404. Ask for or send to attn. of Eileen Rosin: I met her at the Nov. 12th DC demonstration, and she is a neat person. Tell her I sent you. There is also a group called NEST (New EL Salvador Today) centered in Berkeley, whose address I don't have handy. Contact me for more information if you are interested. --Jim Bray (decvax!bbncca!jbray)
saquigley@watmath.UUCP (Sophie Quigley) (02/16/84)
Another thing you can do is to ask your government (through congresspeople, or whatever) to be more supportive of nations like Nicaragua who have managed to pull themselves out of such situations, instead of punishing them by pulling away all economic support. Sophie Quigley watmath!saquigley
riddle@ut-sally.UUCP (Prentiss Riddle) (04/04/84)
>> Why should the United States government support a regime [Nicaragua] >> that is engaged in the active extermination of a large portion of its >> indigenous population? If we did support it, then the news media would >> have access to the country, and we'd see exterminated indians on >> national tv. No thanks. >> Dave Holt >> {allegra,ihnp4,uiucdcs,ctvax}!convex!holt Can I ask you where you get your information? According to my sources, the nation in Central America which is actively exterminating its indigenous population is not Sandinista Nicaragua but right-wing Guatemala, which we quite enthusiastically support. Nicaragua has made its own mistakes in dealing with its indigenous minorities, but they stop far short of extermination -- Nicaragua's chief sin in this regard has been to try to relocate Indian villagers against their will in order to protect them from attack by US-supported counter-revolutionaries operating out of Honduras. Furthermore, the news media -- and private U.S. citizens -- have plenty of access to Nicaragua. There are dozens of people right here in Austin who have made the trip in recent months. There are probably an equal number near you who have done so. All it takes is a tourist card, available at the airport, just the same as for a trip to Mexico. And if it's exterminated Indians you're interested in, all you've got to do is go talk with their surviving relatives in the Guatemalan refugee camps in southern Mexico. --- Prentiss Riddle ("Aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada.") --- {ihnp4,seismo,gatech,ctvax}!ut-sally!riddle
tpkq@charm.UUCP (Timothy Kerwin) (04/04/84)
$<---- Although parsec!holt's wild slander against Nicaragua is undeserving of response, is it necessary to point out that the US government's military and political campaign to overthrow the Nicaraguan government includes a massive CIA campaign of disinformation?
holt@parsec.UUCP (04/08/84)
#R:watmath:-690200:parsec:40500026:000:1509
parsec!holt Apr 6 18:43:00 1984
Mr Pollack,
In most cases, I have been relatively calm in my replies to net
articles. Your article may provoke an exception. It may be true that
as you say "Dave Holt is seriously misinformed". I don't know. I haven't
lived in the countries under discussion. I do pay attention to various
forms of news media available to United States residents, specifically
to those of us in Dallas, Tx. I would be very interested in learning
that recent news reports of Nicaraguqn government attempts to massacre
Miskito Indians are unfounded and incorrect. However, the tone of your
article was anything but constructive and informative. Actually, it
was quite abrasive, and I do take some offense. You may sit in front of
your terminal, and call me "squeamish". But, I'll bet it does little, other
than to discredit you, and the points that you are trying to make. I do
not condone the United States government's support of any type of activity
which would not be legal under our own constitution. In fact, that was
the point that I was trying to make in my response to Sophie. I was not
condoning our support of governments which oppress their people. Upon
re-reading my article, I find it hard to believe that you would have
interpreted it as such.
In conclusion, Mr. Pollack, I would like to say that you may have points of
interest to the net, but, the manner of their presentation leaves much to
be desired.
Dave Holt
Convex Computer Corp.
{allegra,ihnp4,uiucdcs,ctvax}!convex!holtpollack@uicsl.UUCP (04/11/84)
#R:watmath:-690200:uicsl:16300061:000:890 uicsl!pollack Apr 3 12:38:00 1984 Dave Holt is seriously misinformed. The Nicaraguan government is not killing off the Miskito Indians. They did relocate some villages near the Honduran border which were being organized for rebellion by Steadman Fagoth, who works for the CIA. The worst genocidal regimes in this hemisphere are our "friends" Guatemala and Paraguay, both of whom relocate Indian villages by massacre. El Salvador does it too. Besides "aiding" these butchers, our mighty country engages in genocide also, but it is done very slowly, and with the preciseness of a surgeon's scalpel. Watch the populations of Amerinds and Puerto Ricans shrink now that 40% of their child-bearing-aged women have been "voluntarily sterilized". Luckily for those as squeamish as Dave Holt, our media doesn't show us images of Puerto Rican women voluntarily on the operating table. Jordan Pollack University of Illinois