vxl5382@acf4.UUCP (05/01/84)
Nf-From: acf4!vxl5382 May 11 01:32:00 1984 <> It is true that knowledge of the intent to actually kill all Jews was not widespread among many populations, particularily Germans. What was certainly known to all was that Jews were stripped of all rights, were being relocated to destinations unknown, and that people of all nationalities were being killed as individuals for minor infractions. Furthermore, in places where the Jews were killed without being moved to a central location, that is just outside of a town or village, the remaining population knew exactly what had happened. They would see the entire Jewish population of the town taken by foot into the outskirts one morning and perhaps hear the machine guns. For the Jews themselves there must have been a moment when they knew exactly what was about to happen. Another factor that played a role was that the victims were generally transported as families. Responsibilty to the family forbade a strong individual to run, and hope that something might miraculously help forbade a parent to endanger a child's life by fighting. Vladimir Lanin
vxl5382@acf4.UUCP (05/10/84)
Nf-From: acf4!vxl5382 May 9 17:10:00 1984 > In particular, I wonder why more of those taken to the death camps did > not physically resist. I am not well informed on the subject of organized armed resistence. However, I think the question is more directly relevant not to such resistence, but to the actions of the unorganized millions taken to their death like cattle. In other words, when it was apparent that they were about to be killed, why did all these people not run: the number of German guards was never very large and some surely would have gotten away. One answer that has not yet been fully presented is that there was no place to run. The population around them was not only scared, but in general apathetic to the fate of the Jews, and to a rather significant degree antagonistic. This antagonism was not caused by German propoganda of any kind but streamed from a bloody tradition of centuries. In Russia, where I come from, the Jews were mostly not taken to death camps, but machine-gunned in mass graves close to the villages and cities they lived in. In many, if not most, cases the actual act of herding and shooting was carried out by Russian (or some other ethnic group) nationals recruited for the purpose and commanded by the Germans. The people living in many countries of Eastern Europe, such as Poland and Russia were the same people who of their own accord carried out pogroms in the late 1800's and early 1900's. The Jews were surrounded in a sea of hate and indifference into which they could not disappear and which would not help them in an effort to resist. Vladimir Lanin
reza@ihuxb.UUCP (H. Reza Taheri) (05/10/84)
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There is another reason for the apparent lack of resistance among
Jews. It is a fact that one of the reasons Hitler came to power was
his blaming Jews for many of Germany's problem. And it is also true
that anti-smitism existed in Germany. But even to the end there was
no clear admission of crimes (or to the Nazis the heroic acts)
committed in concentration camps. Remember that this was the time of
war. Mass media were under complete control of the Nazis. The only
way that a Jew would know what exactly went on in concentration camps,
was to visit one. And you know how many Jews visited the camps and
came out alive to talk about it.
Now, don't get me wrong. It was obvious that something out of the
ordinary was going on with respect to the "final solution." Everybody
knew about it. Relatives who were taken to the labor camps and were
never heard from again would give anybody a hint that something bad
was happening. But what was happening was so "bad" that it was hard
to believe. Even German soldiers who served in concentration camps
kept quiet. There was no need for the Nazi government to order
secrecy.
Until after the defeat of the Nazi Germany, there was no clear cut
admission by the Nazi officials as to what had happened. Now, you put
yourself in a Jew's shoes. On one hand you have the Nazis who openly
and vigorously express hatred for Jews and apparently not only don't
hide anything about their feelings and actions, but also take pride in
it. The Nazi government says that they are "sending Jews away." On
the other hand you hear rumors about atrocities that are even too
monstrous for Hitler's Nazis, supposedly carried out in the hands of
your neighbor's son. Would you have believed it?
H. Reza Taheri
...!ihnp4!ihuxb!reza
(312)-979-1040jbf@ccieng5.UUCP (05/12/84)
Another thing to consider when discussing the credibility of the death camp "rumors" was British propaganda expertise. In a travel book about Germany written by an Englishman, the Englishman mentions that, while rumors abounded during WWII, most people were skeptical. During WWI, rumors about the crucifixion of Canadians, the way the Huns cut breasts off nuns, etc., were given wide currency by British propaganda. After the war, the British said "Ho ho, we were only joking." An uninvolved German, hearing that Jews were being slaughtered, would probably have figured, "Those wacky British are at it again! What a sick imagination...." Nasreddin Hodja -- "Some people are eccentric, but I am just plain odd" Reachable as ....allegra![rayssd,rlgvax]!ccieng5!jbf