mjk@tty3b.UUCP (Mike Kelly) (06/20/84)
For those of you who missed his gem, Sam Hall compared my comments on Vietnam to a defense of Nazi Germany in the 1930s. First, I did not mean to imply that the Vietnamese government is to be admired. I certainly recognize the abuses of power (indeed, I noted them in my original article). What I did mean to point out is the arrogance of Americans towards this tiny nation. First we bomb it to hell, defoliate it (which is worse than it sounds, since no one knows what the long term effects will be of massive defoliation), murder thousands of people on both sides and then claim that we were only trying to help. We deny our own responsibility, and try to cover it up -- one article I read today even tried to argue that bombing resulted in better rice growing conditions!! I don't claim a strong knowledge of European history, but it seems to me that it is quite possible that the actions of France, Britain and the U.S. following WW I strongly contributed to the rise of fascism in Germany. The Marshall Plan following WW II is partly evidence of the lesson learned by the Allies. There is also a profound difference here: Germany lost the war, and was forced to settle on undesirable terms. Vietnam "won" the war (in the sense that a government the U.S. did not install now rules the country), but what a phyrric victory! In a sense, the U.S. was forced to settle on unfavorable terms so that "peace with dignity" could be claimed. Of course, it turned out not to matter since once the last helicopter left, the State Department figuratively tore up the treaty it negotiated and has steadfastly ignored it ever since. But that's one of perogatives of empire: you can do whatever the hell you please. And in response to your "consistency test", no, I don't believe in aid to South Africa. Consistency is less important to me than morality. Mike Kelly
wetcw@pyuxa.UUCP (T C Wheeler) (06/20/84)
Just a note about defoliated areas. There does not seem to be a long term effect on vegatation. The vegatation recovered the effects of agent orange quite rapidly. On the other hand, the jury is still out, in, out, in on the effects on humans and animals. Agent Orange was used in this country also, to clear right-of-ways along railroad tracks. The railroads usually had to keep going back and redoing the job as the toxins in the agent did not keep new growth from springing up. Even some trees, although losing all of their foliage, would recover by the next growth cycle. In Nam, they had to keep going back to the same areas as the vegatation regrew.
bitmap@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA (06/28/84)
<....> Mike Kelly writes (excerpted): >And in response to your "consistency test", no, I don't believe in >aid to South Africa. Consistency is less important to me than >morality. This reminds me a bit of something that William Kunstler (sp?) said when questioned about the boat people fleeing Vietnam. [quote might not be exact: meaning is exact, I think]. "I think that it's immoral to criticize socialist countries." I should hope that all of us would aspire to both morality and consistency. Sam Hall