rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (07/25/84)
> >> What about the "inalienable rights" of the parents to raise their children > >> according to their own standards? > > Rosen: > > They are worth squat. They are not rights at all. What right does a parent > > have to "expect" to raise children to mold them as *they* see fit? Children > > are not pieces of property; they are human beings who are growing up to be > > independent (hopefully) thinking (hopefully) adults (hopefully). Parents > > don't *own* them; they are charged with the responsibility of bringing them > > up to be independent thinking adults, and there are NO rights associated > > with that responsibility. > > Responsibility without rights is as bad as rights without responbility. > One is totalitarianism; the other is anarchy. Rosen apparently has > chosen the former. [LARRY BICKFORD] Funny, I recall you saying a few months back that YOU, given the choice of anarchy and totalitarianism, would choose the latter. So what are you complaining about? You don't like the fact that having kids brings more responsibility than rights? More pains than pleasures? More toil than fun? Then there's a simple solution: don't have kids. If you honestly feel that having a child is a burden and if you believe that you have "rights" to impose your will and life views on your children, you shouldn't be having kids anyway. (It would mean that, based on this, you wouldn't be fit to be a parent. As someone else said, it's a shame the process of making babies is so simple, and that being a parent doesn't require a competency test.) -- This unit humbly and deeply apologizes for having and expressing opinions. This will not occur again. (BEEP) Rich Rosen pyuxn!rlr
lab@qubix.UUCP (Q-Bick) (07/27/84)
? What about the "inalienable rights" of the parents to raise their
? children according to their own standards?
R They are worth squat. They are not rights at all. What right does a
O parent have to "expect" to raise children to mold them as *they* see fit?
S [parents] are charged with the responsibility of bringing them
E up to be independent thinking adults, and there are NO rights associated
N with that responsibility.
L Responsibility without rights is as bad as rights without responbility.
A One is totalitarianism; the other is anarchy. Rosen apparently has
B chosen the former.
R Funny, I recall you saying a few months back that YOU, given the choice of
L anarchy and totalitarianism, would choose the latter. So what are you
R complaining about?
My hypothetical case was a forced choice between two. Rosen's choice is
neither forced nor restricted.
R You don't like the fact that having kids brings more responsibility than
I rights? ... If you honestly feel that having a child
C is a burden and if you believe that you have "rights" to impose your will
H and life views on your children, you shouldn't be having kids anyway.
The question is not whether they bring less rights than responsibility -
it's whether there are any rights AT ALL. If you want to see Rosen's
(and Labelle's) ideas in action, visit the women in Siberia who
committed the horrible crime of teaching their children from the Bible.
When the state denies parental rights, it takes ownership of the kids.
The bad news is - it's already happening in this country.
--
The Ice Floe of Larry Bickford
{amd70,decwrl,sun,idi,ittvax}!qubix!lab
You can't settle the issue until you've settled how to settle the issue.ward@hao.UUCP (08/02/84)
[] > They are worth squat. They are not rights at all. What right does a > parent have to "expect" to raise children to mold them as *they* see fit? > [parents] are charged with the responsibility of bringing them > up to be independent thinking adults, and there are NO rights associated > with that responsibility. What this?! I have NO right to choose how to raise my children, but Rosen does have the right to make that choice (about my children?) The issue is not parents' rights vs childrens' rights, but parents' rights to protect their children against the know-it-alls who really know squat! -- Michael Ward, NCAR/SCD UUCP: {hplabs,nbires,brl-bmd,seismo,menlo70,stcvax}!hao!sa!ward ARPA: hplabs!hao!sa!ward@Berkeley BELL: 303-497-1252 USPS: POB 3000, Boulder, CO 80307