berry@zinfandel.UUCP (Berry Kercheval) (08/04/84)
Here's a query for all the Libertarian apologists out there (BTW, the term 'apologist' is not derogatory...). Many discussions of libertarianism mention courts and lawsuits. Let's say someone comes and sets my house on fire while I'm not home and everything burns up. All my neighbors see him do it and call our neighborhood Fire Protection Association. Since my dues are paid up they come out and try to put it out, but my 12000 antique pulp magizines burn too hot and the house is a total loss. Now I have 'cause for action' against this arsonist right? I sue him, the neighbors testify and I win the judgement. The arsonist says '**** you, I ain't paying". Now what happens? Can I have the job of collecting put out to bid, with guaranteed immunity for the collectors if they have to, uh, lean on him? What if he hires better protection people than I do? Am I screwed? --berry -- Berry Kercheval Zehntel Inc. (ihnp4!zehntel!zinfandel!berry) (415)932-6900
david@fisher.UUCP (David Rubin) (08/11/84)
Sincere question:
If Libertarianism relies so heavily upon litigation for individuals to
guard their well-being, does that mean one can infringe the rights of
those without the resources to initiate a law suit? Are the poor
unable to avail themselves of litigation?
Second sincere question:
If someone does not have sufficient resources to pay a judgment
against themselves, what recourse does the offended party have? Are
poor people therefore immune to litigation?
David Rubin
{allegra|astrovax|princeton}!fisher!davidwjb@ariel.UUCP (W.BOGSTAD) (08/12/84)
The question was asked what if you sue and they don't want to pay. One way of dealing with this problems wyould be to post such information. I suspect that few people would want to deal in the future with someone who does not honor their contracts. If the person took up a hermit's existence I doubt that would bother them, but for the rest of us I believe it would be an effective encouragement to settle our debts. What do you mean you won't let me buy any food? (etc) (I suppose some people would be willing to take the risk (cash & carry)) Bill Bogstad Please Note: I am not a libertarian, do not know very much about the subject, and DO NOT want to get involved in any long arguments.
mwm@ea.UUCP (08/14/84)
#R:zinfande:-13000:ea:10100076:000:1098 ea!mwm Aug 7 23:08:00 1984 /***** ea:net.politics / zinfande!berry / 8:08 pm Aug 4, 1984 */ Here's a query for all the Libertarian apologists out there (BTW, the term 'apologist' is not derogatory...). Now I have 'cause for action' against this arsonist right? I sue him, the neighbors testify and I win the judgement. The arsonist says '**** you, I ain't paying". --berry -- Berry Kercheval Zehntel Inc. (ihnp4!zehntel!zinfandel!berry) (415)932-6900 /* ---------- */ (BTW, I don't think of myself as defending libertarianism, I think of myself as teaching it Socratically.) Ah, yes, the "people aren't perfect" problem - the problem that *every* form of government has. We libertarians know it exists, and that's why we think there should be a government. You appear to be confusing libertarians with the anarchists. Ideally, you should only realize that there is a government if you are involved in an some such disagreement. In other words, until somebody thinks you are infringing on their rights, or vice versa, the government (the people that control the force) doesn't interfere in your life. <mike
nrh@inmet.UUCP (08/22/84)
#R:zinfandel:-13000:inmet:7800120:000:1094 inmet!nrh Aug 7 10:38:00 1984 >***** inmet:net.politics / zinfandel!berry / 2:02 am Aug 5, 1984 >Many discussions of libertarianism mention courts and lawsuits. Let's say >someone comes and sets my house on fire while I'm not home and >everything burns up. All my neighbors see him do it and call our >neighborhood Fire Protection Association. Since my dues are paid up >they come out and try to put it out, but my 12000 antique pulp magizines >burn too hot and the house is a total loss. > >Now I have 'cause for action' against this arsonist right? I sue him, >the neighbors testify and I win the judgement. > >The arsonist says '**** you, I ain't paying". > >Now what happens? Can I have the job of collecting put out to bid, >with guaranteed immunity for the collectors if they have to, uh, >lean on him? What if he hires better protection people than I do? >Am I screwed? > > --berry This comes up so often that I suggest you (and everybody else who fears a libertarian society would be poorly policed) read David Friedman's "Machinery of Freedom", Chapter 29, "Police, courts, and laws -- on the market".
nrh@inmet.UUCP (08/22/84)
>***** inmet:net.politics / fisher!david / 11:01 am Aug 11, 1984 >Sincere question: > >If Libertarianism relies so heavily upon litigation for individuals to >guard their well-being, does that mean one can infringe the rights of >those without the resources to initiate a law suit? Are the poor >unable to avail themselves of litigation? > Not at all -- someone so poor that he could not afford litigation would probably come under the wing of charitable organizations (one might imagine volunteers for such a thing as the ACLU. >Second sincere question: > >If someone does not have sufficient resources to pay a judgment >against themselves, what recourse does the offended party have? Are >poor people therefore immune to litigation? > What happens in OUR society when this is so?