lkk@mit-eddie.UUCP (Larry Kolodney) (09/25/84)
Henry Spencer is long on wind but short on facts vis:
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"Last I heard, socialism was a economic system and the Social Democrats
were a political party. Again, one must distinguish between the map (what
things are called) and the territory. I am vaguely aware that there may
be a specific economic approach known as "social democracy", but I very
much doubt that most Social Democrats even know what it is."
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Socialism is a political grouping, which covers a wide range of particular
political programs, including Social Democracy. In general, any
political theory which dictates that "the means of production" should be
controlled by "the people" should be considered "socialist". Social
Democracy, in its current incarnation, is the most mild brand of
socialism, currently espoused by the German Social Democratic party,
(but not the Swedish one), and the American Democratic party. It
espouses for the most part, regulation as the means of control, rather
than ownership, and this is often taken as a necessary evil.
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"Note that true socialism *is* a totally planned
economy, as found (to a first approximation) in the USSR and China. The
differences beween socialism and communism (note the small "c"; again I
am talking economic systems, not names or political parties) are a bit
more subtle, but both are centrally-controlled economies."
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True Socialism *is* a totally planned economy, eh? Says who, you?
The vast majority of people calling themselves socialist (at least in
the West), do not want a totally planned economy on the Soviet model.
Have you every heard of Anarcho-socialists? They reject the idea of any
central control, yet still call themselves socialist. Why? Because
they beleive in control of the means of production by those the people
(in the forms of self-contained co-operatives).
Communism, with a small c, is absolutely NOT a centrally planned
economy. Did you say the differences were subtle because you didn't
know what they were perhaps?
Communism, in the general sense, is a philosophy which advoctates a
communal living situation (a lot closer to anarcho-socialism than
central planning. In Marxist philosophy, communism is a technical term.
It refers to the state of affairs that Marx predicted would occur AFTER
the fall of the state (i.e. a form of anarchy). Marx didn't think that
society could go directly from capitalism to communism, so he said that
there would be an intermediate step, socialism, where the state (the
supposed instrument of the workers) controlled the economy and
transformed it into a communist model; afterwards it would wither away.
The Soviets do not claim to be a communist country, they refer to
themelves a a socialist country, in "advanced socialism". We call them
Communist because they are run by the Communist party, which espouses
the doctrines of Marx, which calls for the evetual creation of a
communist society. Got it?!
--
larry kolodney (The Devil's Advocate)
UUCP: ...{ihnp4, decvax!genrad}!mit-eddie!lkk
ARPA: lkk@mit-mcrrizzo@bbncca.ARPA (Ron Rizzo) (09/25/84)
One more comment on Henry Spencer's assertion that small-s socialism stands for the government as sole employer: even when socialism does advocate central coordination of economic life etc., it doesn't nec- essarily mean state control. The "utopian socialist" Charles Fourier envisaged large factory-centered communities that would be effectively or actually (can't recall for sure) self-governing. What categorizes this scheme as socialist is coordination of the whole economy for a communal purpose; the "political" means for doing this could conceivably range from direct democracy to representation to committees. What seemed to distinguish Fourier from contemporaries that were given or adopted the label small-c communism is the smaller scale and greater intimacy and demands of the communistic societies. The socialists had a more public and impersonal interest in administration: they were promoting schemes for the organization of entire nations; the communists were primarily interested in small communities and the character of daily life and personal relations.