orb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER) (10/18/84)
> So the amateur strategists never say why the SU would want West Europe, > do they? Ok, here is an amateur strategist (among other appelations). > > Western Europe is an embarrasment to the SU. There is always some > social incorrigible voting with his feet and trying to leave the SU or > East Europe. He'll probably get shot or blown up but it's worth it. > How many people want to emigrate to the SU? > > The presence of an open society so close to the SU is a continuous problem. > Steve Rojak, So Plainfield, NJ It is remotely possible that the Soviet Union would wish to invade Western Europe but I think it extremely unlikely. People who are always crying wolf about the Soviet Union invading Western Europe forget that they have had an independent country closeby since the end of World War 2-namely Yugoslavia. While Yugoslavia is ruled by Tito's Communist Party, they have always pursued a policy independent of the Soviet Union. They have also engaged in interesting experiments in workers democracy and freeing up the rigid Communist bureaucratic system. If the Soviet Union doesn't wish to take the risk of invading a small country like Yugoslavia why should they want to challenge the region that led to the loss of 15 million Soviet lives in the last European War? While I am not about to claim that the Soviet Union will not take advantage of opportunities for expansion, I also think their foreign policy since WW II has been essentially cautious and defensive in character. I think that they are very much afraid of a re-united Germany with renewed military strength. But the West was afraid of the same prospect--which is one reason the West (Britain, France, the US) were not overly upset when Germany was divided. If the Soviet Union is so keen on expansion why haven't they invaded Yugoslavia to install Soviet puppets there? Tim Sevener whuxl!orb
scw@cepu.UUCP (Stephen C. Woods) (10/22/84)
In article <292@whuxl.UUCP> orb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER) writes: >> So the amateur strategists never say why the SU would want West Europe, >> do they? Ok, here is an [...] divided. >If the Soviet Union is so keen on expansion why haven't they invaded >Yugoslavia to install Soviet puppets there? Well for one thing they saw what happened to the Germans durring WWII, Th German Army had 3 Army Groups (about 12 Divisions all together) tied up in Yugoslavia from 1943-1945. And this was against a very badly divided bunch of Yugoslavs (3 different Armies fighting each other more that the Germans). Yugoslavia is ideal country to defend (much like Switzerland in that respect). -- Stephen C. Woods (VA Wadsworth Med Ctr./UCLA Dept. of Neurology) uucp: { {ihnp4, uiucdcs}!bradley, hao, trwrb, sdcrdcf}!cepu!scw ARPA: cepu!scw@ucla-cs location: N 34 3' 9.1" W 118 27' 4.3"
david@fisher.UUCP (David Rubin) (10/23/84)
The Soviet Union has not invaded Yugoslvia because of the risk of
wider war. If they could be sure of winning such a war, there would
be no reason to believe that they would not use that superiority to
indeed bring Yugoslavia back into Soviet orbit. The fact that they do
not do so is NOT prima facie evidence that they do not have the
desire...
David Rubin
{allegra|astrovax|princeton}!fisher!davidamir@digi-g.UUCP (Amir ) (10/26/84)
In article <> david@fisher.UUCP (David Rubin) writes: >The Soviet Union has not invaded Yugoslvia because of the risk of >wider war. If they could be sure of winning such a war, there would >be no reason to believe that they would not use that superiority to >indeed bring Yugoslavia back into Soviet orbit. The fact that they do >not do so is NOT prima facie evidence that they do not have the >desire... > David Rubin > {allegra|astrovax|princeton}!fisher!david And that is true of most of the countries specially U.S. If one is sure that they can win a war, they would do it. In case of U.S., some times they do it even when they are not sure.
jpexg@mit-hermes.ARPA (John Purbrick) (10/29/84)
Here's a sure way of defending western Europe against Soviet invasion. It's expensive, although not as expensive as our current defenses, and relies on a weapon to which Russians are vulnerable and we aren't. We line the West German border, almost continuously, with shopping malls. The stores are filled with high quality goods, everything from blue jeans to frozen steaks to reliable washing-machines, and with plenty of glossy magazines (including obscene ones) lying around. Outside, the parking lots are full of BMW's and Mercedes, all with the keys in the ignition. Would any Russian leader risk letting a few hundred thousand ordinary citizens (ie, army conscripts) even see such a sight?
john@x.UUCP (John Woods) (10/31/84)
*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR BUG ***
> We line the West German border...with shopping malls...
By God, he's got it! Of course it will work!! You don't see Russian tanks
lined up outside New Jersey, now, do you???
--
John Woods, Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA, (617) 626-1114
...!decvax!frog!john, ...!mit-eddie!jfw, jfw%mit-ccc@MIT-XX.ARPAroy@eisx.UUCP (Steve Rojak) (11/02/84)
The SU did not invade Yugoslavia after Tito's break because the SU was not in a position to enforce its will on Tito. The Soviet sphere in Europe is exactly as far as the Red Army got during WW2. Note that Albania does things their own way, and were Maoist for a long time (may still be). Yugoslavia was liberated by Yugoslav partisans, who did not exactly welcome the Red Army either. Present/future events should be judged in this light. eisx!roy