kissell@flairvax.UUCP (Kevin Kissell) (10/26/84)
(ahem) Norway, too, had a woman for Prime Minister not long ago. Isabel Peron was at least the nominal leader of a Peronist government of Argentina in the '70s.
ecl@hocsj.UUCP (10/27/84)
Reference: <402@amdahl.UUCP> amdahl!dss00 says: > I may have some facts wrong, so feel free to correct me. > > Facts: > > A. It seems that there have been (including the present) four > women head of states. > > 1. Sirimao Bandarnaike - Sri Lanka > 2. Indira Gandhi - India > 3. Golda Mayer - Israel > 4. Margaret Thatcher - U.K. > > B. Three out of the four led their country in a war. > > C. All three won it hands down. > What about: Nefertiti (Eqypt) Cleopatra (Eqypt) Boadicea (ancient Britain) Isabella of Spain Mary, Queen of Scots Mary I of England Elizabeth I of England Christina of Sweden Mary (of William and Mary) Catherine the Great of Russia Queen Victoria Juliana of the Netherlands (?) Peron of Argentina (not Eva, but the recent one) Well, you get my point. There have been many women heads of state. (I'm sure I've forgotten more than I remembered. But certainly more than the four listed.) And many of them won the wars they led their countries in (not 'into', mind you, but 'in'). (Let's not forget Joan of Arc when it comes to leading battles!) So? (And it's spelled 'Golda Meir'.) Any additions to me (I'll post a summary if anyone cares!). Evelyn C. Leeper ...ihnp4!hocsj!ecl
mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) (10/28/84)
================= > A. It seems that there have been (including the present) four > women head of states. > > 1. Sirimao Bandarnaike - Sri Lanka > 2. Indira Gandhi - India > 3. Golda Mayer - Israel > 4. Margaret Thatcher - U.K. > What about: Nefertiti (Eqypt) Cleopatra (Eqypt) Boadicea (ancient Britain) Isabella of Spain Mary, Queen of Scots Mary I of England Elizabeth I of England Christina of Sweden Mary (of William and Mary) Catherine the Great of Russia Queen Victoria Juliana of the Netherlands (?) Peron of Argentina (not Eva, but the recent one) ================= Some of these were/are leaders but not heads of state, others heads of state but not leaders. I think the point was about leaders. In the US, there is no difference, but in most countries there is. Margaret Thatcher is not Head of State; another woman is. But Thatcher got Britain into an expensive war (and got re-elected for it -- Reagan noticed), Elizabeth II did not. -- Martin Taylor {allegra,linus,ihnp4,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt {uw-beaver,qucis,watmath}!utcsrgv!dciem!mmt
herbie@watdcsu.UUCP (Herb Chong, Computing Services) (10/28/84)
It's Isabel (spelling?) Peron.
Herb...
I'm user-friendly -- I don't byte, I nybble....
UUCP: {decvax|utzoo|ihnp4|allegra|clyde}!watmath!watdcsu!herbie
CSNET: herbie%watdcsu@waterloo.csnet
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BITNET: herbie at watdcs,herbie at watdcsuherbie@watdcsu.UUCP (Herb Chong, Computing Services) (10/28/84)
The ability of a person to govern is independent of sex, but very
dependent upon the society they grew up in. What does this have to
say about out present society? Equality is just a word until it becomes
reality.
Herb...
I'm user-friendly -- I don't byte, I nybble....
UUCP: {decvax|utzoo|ihnp4|allegra|clyde}!watmath!watdcsu!herbie
CSNET: herbie%watdcsu@waterloo.csnet
ARPA: herbie%watdcsu%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
BITNET: herbie at watdcs,herbie at watdcsuecl@hocsj.UUCP (10/30/84)
Reference: <189@hocsj.UUCP>, <1174@dciem.UUCP> > Margaret Thatcher is not Head of State; another woman is. But Thatcher > got Britain into an expensive war (and got re-elected for it -- Reagan > noticed), Elizabeth II did not. Martin Taylor claims (correctly) that though Deepak Sabnis said "heads of state" (in the original posting), he or she actually meant "leaders." The four he/she listed were leaders; most of my list were also. I listed Elizabeth *I*, not Elizabeth *II*--and I consider the defeat of the Spanish Armada a war that she led her country in. I would never list Elizabeth II or any of the other female nominal "heads of state" as leaders. The other point that comes out is that most of the woman leaders were not elected in any sense. The four Sabnis listed were--if not by direct popular vote, at least by the vote of the respective parliaments who were in turn elected by popular vote. Everyone in Israel who was voting for his or her representative in the Knesset knew that he or she were also voting for or against Meir, for example. Then again, the majority of men heads of state through history weren't elected either... Following is the summary. From: dss00@amdahl.UUCP (Deepak S. Sabnis) >A. It seems that there have been (including the present) four > women head of states. > 1. Sirimao Bandarnaike - Sri Lanka > 2. Indira Gandhi - India > 3. Golda Mayer - Israel > 4. Margaret Thatcher - U.K. From: ecl@hocsj.UUCP (e.c.leeper) What about: Nefertiti (Eqypt) Cleopatra (Eqypt) Boadicea (ancient Britain) Isabella of Spain Mary, Queen of Scots Mary I of England Elizabeth I of England Christina of Sweden Mary (of William and Mary) Catherine the Great of Russia Queen Victoria Juliana of the Netherlands (?) Peron of Argentina (not Eva, but the recent one) (As someone below pointed out, Nefertiti shouldn't be on this list.) Cleopatra led the Egyptians against the Romans (unsuccessfully). Boadicea did the same for the ancient Britons (with the same results). Isabella of Spain was Isabella La Catolica, who with Ferninand drove the Moors from Spain. Mary, Queen of Scots, warred with Britain (unsuccessfully). Mary I had lots of internal strife to deal with, but I don't believe she fought any external wars. Elizabeth I was the defeat of the Spanish Armada. Christina (I believe) led her country in war against invaders from Russia. Mary (of William and Mary) I don't know much about. Catherine the Great fought some battles (see below). Queen Victoria reigned when British sovereigns still had some power (and during the Boer war and the ongoing conflicts in India). Juliana was during WWII, but it's not clear to me how much power she had. From: ihnp4!uiucdcs!uiucdcsb:grass (Judy Grass) > Catherine the Great was only the last of a run of female Czarina's that > made up a period of Russian history known as the "Gynococracy". Another > was Elizabeth. There were two or three others as well. Highlights of > their reigns: Various succesfull skirmishes with the Swedes and Caucasian > tribes. Peasant rebellions put down. A mixed bag, as far as reforms > go. From: kissell@flairvax.UUCP > Norway, too, had a woman for Prime Minister not long ago. Isabel Peron > was at least the nominal leader of a Peronist government of Argentina > in the '70s. From: astrovax!dartvax!betsy (Betsy Hanes Perry) > I think you missed Queen Anne of England, Hatshepsut of Egypt, > (Nefertiti didn't rule, you know...) and Isabella la Catolica of > Spain. (I did miss the first two, but Isabella was listed.) From: ihnp4!stolaf!umn-cs!digi-g!brian > Another one is the President of Iceland, the first woman elected by POPULAR > VOTE to head of state (PM of England is chosen by the majority party in > Parlament). I don't remember her name. (See my final comment above.) Evelyn C. Leeper ...ihnp4!hocsj!ecl
jpexg@mit-hermes.ARPA (John Purbrick) (11/03/84)
> Mary, Queen of Scots, warred with Britain (unsuccessfully).
I don't think so; what she definitely did do was get involved in schemes
with Disaffected English Catholics to depose her cousin Elizabeth. When
Mary was on the run from her own subjects, she fled to England where
Elizabeth had her imprisoned and eventually killed. They never met in
person, incidentally.
Additional WH'soS:
Vigdis Finbogasdottir was president of Iceland for a few years.
Bolivia had a woman president (I think her name is Viola something) but the
military/cocaine interests found her continuing in office irksome.....
"Liluokalani, give as your little brown hannie" in Hawaii was the last
independent ruler there.
And who could forget Tonga's outstanding queen Salote?
As an aside (relevant to the question of whether women should take
their husbands' last names or not, note that Vigdis' title as president
was "President Vigdis". In Iceland they never got the all-but-universal
habit of family names; "Finbogasdottir" is a patronymic serving to give
President Vigdis some individuality among all the other Vigdises of Iceland.
But there'd be no point in addressing her as "Finbogasdottir"--there's
no reason, on the average, why there should be fewer Finbogas in her
parents' generation than Vigdises now. (This is all in Magnusson's, excuse
me, Magnus's, notes to the Icelandic sagas--see net.books!)ram@decvax.UUCP (Ram Rao) (11/03/84)
In article <hocsj.203> ecl@hocsj.UUCP writes: > >Martin Taylor claims (correctly) that though Deepak Sabnis said "heads of >state" (in the original posting), he or she actually meant "leaders." The four >he/she listed were leaders; most of my list were also. > > Evelyn C. Leeper > ...ihnp4!hocsj!ecl Evelyn C. Leeper seems unclear about Deepak's sex. For his/her information Deepak is a rather common name among males in India. :) Ram (he or she?) Rao ...decvax!ram
steven@mcvax.UUCP (Steven Pemberton) (11/05/84)
In article <2214@mit-hermes.ARPA> jpexg@mit-hermes.ARPA (John Purbrick) types: > Vigdis Finbogasdottir was president of Iceland for a few years. [...] > In Iceland they never got the all-but-universal habit of family names; > "Finbogasdottir" is a patronymic serving to give President Vigdis some > individuality among all the other Vigdises of Iceland. Since in Iceland girls get their surnames from their mother: <mother's first name>+dottir, and boys similarly from their father + son, then "Finbogasdottir" must be a matronymic, not a patronymic! Steven Pemberton, CWI, Amsterdam
jpexg@mit-hermes.ARPA (John Purbrick) (11/07/84)
> Since in Iceland girls get their surnames from their mother: > <mother's first name>+dottir, and boys similarly from their father + son, > then "Finbogasdottir" must be a matronymic, not a patronymic! > > Steven Pemberton, CWI, Amsterdam If that's true, you are absolutely right. In fact, Magnus Magnusson says in his notes to the Sagas that there were cases when Icelanders would (do?) use matronymics rather than patronymics. This would happen if a child's father had been dead a long time, or if the mother were especially well known. The patro/matro-nymic was (is) a pragmatic device to identify people by their best-known parent so you'd know something about their origins. He didn't say that women used a matronymic, but that would make Iceland an unusually feminist society (at least in terms of names). Russians of both sexes (to cite the only other example I know) use patronynmics only--but only as a middle name. I suggest that any further discussion of this subject take place in net.nlang.