steven@mcvax.UUCP (Steven Pemberton) (11/29/84)
In article <22400042@ea.UUCP> mwm@ea.UUCP writes: > Sigh. How many times does it have to be said. The Nazis (National > Socialists) were *left* wing radicals. It says so right there on the label. Is this a joke? I remember seeing a film where someone made the same joke, and a few years ago everyone had a good laugh when Prince Philip of the British royal family made a blunder by saying something similar, though seriously.
biep@klipper.UUCP (J. A. "Biep" Durieux) (11/29/84)
In article <6207@mcvax.UUCP> steven@mcvax.UUCP (Steven Pemberton) writes: >In article <22400042@ea.UUCP> mwm@ea.UUCP writes: >> Sigh. How many times does it have to be said. The Nazis (National >> Socialists) were *left* wing radicals. It says so right there on the label. > >Is this a joke? I remember seeing a film where someone made the same joke, >and a few years ago everyone had a good laugh when Prince Philip of the >British royal family made a blunder by saying something similar, though >seriously. [] Well, saying "It says so right there on the label" is a joke, of course, but the fact is true. The Nazis wanted (and got) almost complete government control, control of social life (remember what they were trying to do to the churches?), etc. They are socialistic in the sense the USSR is. One may refuse to call that socialistic, but left wing radical it is. For reading (does someone ever read books proposed on the net? I don't :-)): 1) Hamburger: How Nazi Germany has controlled business 2) W. Shirer: The rise and fall of the Third Reich. (Both citing from memory. Especially the latter is recommended: Extremely well documented and covering almost every aspect of Nazism. I've read only parts of it myself, but hope to find time to read it completely. It's thick, however.) -- Biep. {seismo|decvax|philabs}!mcvax!vu44!botter!klipper!biep I utterly disagree with everything you are saying, but I am prepared to fight myself to death for your right to say it. --Voltaire
gjk@talcott.UUCP (Greg J Kuperberg) (11/30/84)
In article <6207@mcvax.UUCP>, Steven Pemberton writes: > In article <22400042@ea.UUCP> mwm@ea.UUCP writes: > > Sigh. How many times does it have to be said. The Nazis (National > > Socialists) were *left* wing radicals. It says so right there on the label. > > Is this a joke? I remember seeing a film where someone made the same joke, > and a few years ago everyone had a good laugh when Prince Philip of the > British royal family made a blunder by saying something similar, though > seriously. Ok, Steven, we now know that you can ridicule someone else. Unfortunately, your article did not convey any information. In this case, there is interesting history involved, so: The National Socialists were originally a pathetic little socialist party in Germany. For some reason Hitler liked some of few members that it had, so he took it over and made it a very big, but not very socialist, party. Once he entered the party, he took to monopolizing it immediately. Some of the original members resented him for this, and most of these were put to death in 1934. Hitler was not in any sense a socialist. In fact, he didn't care much for economics at all. He made a feeble attempt at an economic theory in Mein Kampf at one point, but you can tell that he simply wasn't very interested. He made attempts to appeal to both big business and the workers in Germany. When talking to the workers, he was pro-union, and when talking to businessmen, he was not. In the end, he needed the businessmen's money more than the workers' vote, so he favored them more often. Hitler was neither a left-wing radical nor a right-wing radical. He was the point at infinity; he was simply radical. --- Greg Kuperberg harvard!talcott!gjk "Eureka!" -Archimedes
myers@uwmacc.UUCP (Jeff Myers) (11/30/84)
> Well, saying "It says so right there on the label" is a joke, of > course, but the fact is true. The Nazis wanted (and got) almost complete > government control, control of social life (remember what they were trying > to do to the churches?), etc. They are socialistic in the sense the USSR is. > One may refuse to call that socialistic, but left wing radical it is. > > {seismo|decvax|philabs}!mcvax!vu44!botter!klipper!biep > Leftists are not all totalitarian Stalinists, as you are implying. Most, including myself, are not. I suppose that you believe that both the KPD (German Communist Party) and the NSDAP (National Socialist German Worker's Party) being "left wing radical" explains why they fought in the streets bitterly during the Weimar Republic (the German democracy which Hitler bent to his will), and why Hitler purged the left wing of the NSDAP when he had consolidated power, and why the NSDAP was allied with the right wing parties before it obtained supreme power, and why the NSDAP grew up in Bavaria, the most conservative part of Germany. Please go read Shirer again (especially the first 400 pages or so). -- Jeff Myers The views above may or may not University of Wisconsin-Madison reflect the views of my employers. Madison Academic Computing Center ARPA: uwmacc!myers@wisc-rsch.arpa uucp: ..!{allegra,heurikon,ihnp4,seismo,uwm-evax}!uwvax!myers
biep@klipper.UUCP (J. A. "Biep" Durieux) (12/03/84)
In article <500@uwmacc.UUCP> myers@uwmacc.UUCP (Jeff Myers) writes: >> Well, saying "It says so right there on the label" is a joke, of >> course, but the fact is true. The Nazis wanted (and got) almost complete >> government control, control of social life (remember what they were trying >> to do to the churches?), etc. They are socialistic in the sense the USSR is. >> One may refuse to call that socialistic, but left wing radical it is. >> >> {seismo|decvax|philabs}!mcvax!vu44!botter!klipper!biep >> > >Leftists are not all totalitarian Stalinists, as you are implying. Am I? I am saying that the Nazis and the USSR were/are left wing radical, not that all left wing radicals (let alone all leftists) are Stalinistic. I yielded that "socialistic" might be the wrong word (it has been used in so many ways by now... it *is* what the first S of USSR means) And the fact that two parties fight each other doesn't imply that at least one of them is right wing... I made, however, a mistake: I meant "control of industry and economy", but typed "government control". -- Biep. {seismo|decvax|philabs}!mcvax!vu44!botter!klipper!biep I utterly disagree with everything you are saying, but I am prepared to fight myself to death for your right to say it. --Voltaire