[net.politics] Making Friends for the Soviets

orb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER) (11/21/84)

> from Tom Albrecht:
> 	Haven't you heard of the Monroe Doctrine? 
 Yeah, wasn't that the excuse Woodrow Wilson used when sending American
troops to occupy Nicaragua for 19 years?
> The issue is not whether
> Nicaragua has advanced military aircraft, but who is doing the supplying of
> such aircraft.  The Soviet Union would like nothing better than to use
> Nicaragua as a launching point for operations against El Salvador and other
> Central American countries.  Are we supposed to wait until there are Soviet
> bases in Central America to do something?
So why has the US done all in its power to prevent Nicaragua from getting
weapons from Western Europe rather than the Soviet Union?  A Nicaraguan
delegation went to various European countries and were turned down due to
US pressure.  That does not mean that I support Nicaragua getting more
weapons anymore than I think it wise for *any* country to get more weapons.
But one can hardly fund a *secret* war to overthrow another country's government
and then blame that country when they feel they are threatened! Then exert
pressure to keep other governments from lending support and finally blame
the Nicaraguans for being forced to ask Moscow for weapons.
> 
> 	I think we have a responsibility to the other nations of Central
> America to determine as best we can whether those MiGs are there and if
> they are to dispose of them quickly.
> 
The Reagan administration has already admitted there were no MIG's.
It was carried in an AP story last thursday, as well as several times in
the NY Times.
> 	Only because the Nicaraguan government is doing its best to make
> life miserable for its own people and surrounding nations.  
Evidence please for this statement.  There have been severe problems with
the Mesquit (sp?) Indians and food shortages.  But the contras have
certainly not helped this situation.  There are a number of Americans
from various groups in Nicaragua at this very moment.  So far as I know
there have not been reports of enormous discontent.  Human Rights organizations
have also pointed out that while there have been literally thousands of
people murdered in El Salvador in the past few years, there is no
evidence of massive killings in Nicaragua.  These are the same Human Rights
organizations who have reported on problems in Communist countries.
They have tried to be as objective as possible in reporting Human Rights
problems both East and West.
> We did the same
> thing to the Cubans during the missile crisis in '62 (when we were directly
> threatened).  Our only problem was that we didn't have the resolve to keep 
> up the pressure during succeeding years are we are now paying the price.  
> Cuba, the Soviet pawn, has been the cause of widespread chaos throughout 
> Africa and Central America.
So why is Cuba a Soviet ally and China is not? Why is Yugoslavia comparatively
friendly to the US? Have we learned nothing from the Chinese experience to
suggest that the spectre of "monolithic Communism" is created as much by our
own paranoia as by reality?  We did all in our power to isolate Cuba and
force them into alliance with Moscow.  It worked brilliantly!
To what purpose?  Is it not possible that we could have kept Cuba as nonaligned
as Yugoslavia with reasonable diplomacy?
Do you remember what happened *before* the Cuban Missile Crisis?
That's right, the attempted invasion of the Bay of Pigs.  Will we force things
to the brink again?
> 
> 	As long as we perceive a threat to our own security we should do
> what we can to neutralize the threat.
How does Nicaragua threaten our security?
Will Nicaragua be more of a threat to our security if they are forced into
the Soviet camp or if we try to foster nonalignment?
Has Nicaragua ever mined American harbors?  Funded American terrorist
groups dedicated to overthrowing our government? Suggested a campaign of
assassinations against American officials?
questions to ponder as our Nation prepares to go to War.......
 
tim sevener whuxl!orb

orb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER) (11/21/84)

> Well, Sevener, I see your up to your old tricks again.  Just when was
> it that the Sandinistas travelled all over Europe looking for
> weapons?  Let's have some information.  I think you will be eating your
> words again.  

I never knew I ate any words to begin with!  On the other hand those
expecting Reagan not to raise taxes are in for a great shock! Isn't it
amazing how just days after the election the deficit goes from something
we can just "grow out of" to a matter of GRAVE concern?
Anyway, my statement that the Nicaraguans went to foreign governments to
ask for weapons is based upon two sources: NPR (National Public Radio)
and the New York Times.  I know that it is unfortunate that such "liberal"
organs of information exist that bother to tell their audience such
unsavory facts but they are usually accurate.
I am not sure exactly which NY Times I saw it in.  NPR reported it in
a special report on Central America last week.  Call them and ask them
if you don't believe me.
yours in truth, tim sevener whuxl!orb

jmm@bonnie.UUCP (Joe Mcghee) (11/22/84)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	I found Tim Sevener's views on US foreign policy particularly
brilliant and lucid, especially since they happen to correspond exactly
to my own views :-). I sometimes wonder if the State Department and
the administration ever conduct post mortems to determine why US policy
failed in a particular country or do they just stumble blindly onward
without ever looking back?

				J. M. McGhee
				clyde!bonnie!jmm

act@pur-phy.UUCP (Alex C. Tselis) (12/02/84)

> 	I found Tim Sevener's views on US foreign policy particularly
> brilliant and lucid, especially since they happen to correspond exactly
> to my own views :-). I sometimes wonder if the State Department and
> the administration ever conduct post mortems to determine why US policy
> failed in a particular country or do they just stumble blindly onward
> without ever looking back?
> 				J. M. McGhee

They just stumble blindly onward without ever looking back.

kevin@lasspvax.UUCP (Kevin Saunders) (12/03/84)

[]
>> I sometimes wonder if the State Department and
>> the administration ever conduct post mortems to determine why US policy
>> failed in a particular country or do they just stumble blindly onward
>> without ever looking back?
>> 				J. M. McGhee
>
>They just stumble blindly onward without ever looking back.
>	(Alex C. Tselis) 

Not quite.  The Pentagon Papers are an example of internal historical 
research, which--once leaked, at least--yielded a lot of insight into 
the "process" of Vietnam.

Kevin Eric Saunders
kevin.lasspvax@cornell.arpa