steven@mcvax.UUCP (Steven Pemberton) (12/03/84)
In article <146@talcott.UUCP> gjk@talcott.UUCP (Greg J Kuperberg) writes: > Remember, this is an American network that your posting to. No it's not. > I have not seen one positive comment about the U.S. coming from Europe in > net.politics. [...] But if you really want to have a smear campaign, Mike, > Steven, Piet, and the rest of you, here goes: ... I think you may be getting paranoid. I don't remember making one criticism of the US in any posting. Maybe I'm wrong and I'd be pleased to be corrected if I am. The only criticism I've made that could be construed like that is of US missiles in Europe which I blame on European governments as well as the US government. Steven Pemberton, CWI, Amsterdam; steven@mcvax.
gjk@talcott.UUCP (Greg J Kuperberg) (12/07/84)
> In article <146@talcott.UUCP> gjk@talcott.UUCP (Greg J Kuperberg) writes: > > Remember, this is an American network that your posting to. > No it's not. Ok, how many UUCP hosts are there? And how many of them are in the U.S.? And where was UUCP started anyway? And where was Unix invented? And the vax? And the silicon chip? And the telephone? > > I have not seen one positive comment about the U.S. coming from Europe in > > net.politics. [...] But if you really want to have a smear campaign, Mike, > > Steven, Piet, and the rest of you, here goes: ... > I think you may be getting paranoid. I don't remember making one criticism > of the US in any posting. Maybe I'm wrong and I'd be pleased to be corrected > if I am. The only criticism I've made that could be construed like that is > of US missiles in Europe which I blame on European governments as well as > the US government. > > Steven Pemberton, CWI, Amsterdam; steven@mcvax. Read Piet's stuff. Better yet, I'll show it to you here: ><...> > >America, this is one more black day in your history. There's nothing you >have to be proud of. > >-- > Piet Beertema, CWI, Amsterdam > ...{seismo,decvax,philabs}!mcvax!piet This criticism is so constructive that it almost makes me throw up. Read the rest of Piet's articles, and read the other articles from Holland, the articles from Sweden, the articles from Canada, etc. The majority are rantings about Nicaragua, El Salvador, or nukes, and most are about Reagan. Well, if you know anything about the U.S. government, you'll know about this system of *checks and balances*, by which the President does not have complete power within the government. And if you read up on current affairs, you'll know that the U.S. does a hell of a lot more than plant nukes and pay contras. Like sell grain to the rest of the world, for example. If criticizing governments strikes your fancy, then may I call your attention to extremely high death rate in Cambodia, the Cuban troops in Ethiopia, or the French arms industry. But if you happen to be like Piet and others; if you don't care about all of politics, or all the things that the U.S. does, but only care about the bad things that the U.S. does; if you only want to be anti-American, then I have great contempt for you. --- Greg Kuperberg harvard!talcott!gjk "Madam, there is only one important question facing us, and that is the question whether the white race will survive." -Leonid Breshnev, speaking to Margaret Thatcher.
steven@mcvax.UUCP (Steven Pemberton) (12/09/84)
gjk@talcott.UUCP (Greg J Kuperberg) wrote: > I have not seen one positive comment about the U.S. coming from Europe in > net.politics. [...] But if you really want to have a smear campaign, Mike, > Steven, Piet, and the rest of you, here goes: ... To which I (Steven) replied > I think you may be getting paranoid. I don't remember making one criticism > of the US in any posting. Maybe I'm wrong and I'd be pleased to be corrected To which Greg replied > Read Piet's stuff. Better yet, I'll show it to you here: [...A posting from Piet was here...] > This criticism is so constructive that it almost makes me throw up. Read > the rest of Piet's articles, and read the other articles from Holland, the > articles from Sweden, the articles from Canada, etc. [...] > If criticizing governments strikes your fancy, then may I call your > attention to extremely high death rate in Cambodia, the Cuban troops in > Ethiopia, or the French arms industry. > > But if you happen to be like Piet and others; if you don't care about all > of politics, or all the things that the U.S. does, but only care about the > bad things that the U.S. does; if you only want to be anti-American, then I > have great contempt for you. To which I now reply: I think you may be getting paranoid. I don't remember making one criticism of the US in any posting. Maybe I'm wrong and I'd be pleased to be corrected. Steven Pemberton, CWI, Amsterdam; steven@mcvax
biep@klipper.UUCP (J. A. "Biep" Durieux) (12/10/84)
In article <173@talcott.UUCP> gjk@talcott.UUCP (Greg J Kuperberg) writes: >> In article <146@talcott.UUCP> gjk@talcott.UUCP (Greg J Kuperberg) writes: >> > Remember, this is an American network that your posting to. >> No it's not. > >Ok, how many UUCP hosts are there? And how many of them are in the U.S.? >And where was UUCP started anyway? And where was Unix invented? And >the vax? And the silicon chip? And the telephone? And who invented the Latin alphabet? And the English language? And electri- city? And collaboration? And negative comments about the U.S.? Please don't be silly! >> > I have not seen one positive comment about the U.S. coming from Europe in >> > net.politics. [...] But if you really want to have a smear campaign, Mike, >> > Steven, Piet, and the rest of you, here goes: ... >> I think you may be getting paranoid. I don't remember making one criticism >> of the US in any posting. >> Steven Pemberton, CWI, Amsterdam; steven@mcvax. > >Read Piet's stuff. (Piet's (in-)famous "black day" article) Read >the rest of Piet's articles, and read the other articles from Holland, the >articles from Sweden, the articles from Canada, etc. Oh, yes, of course! And "the" articles from America (I guess you mean Peru and Mexico) are all... Please, I generally do like the U.S., but when you are doing so terribly, narrow mindedly "American", I can't stand. Every summer there are buses full of "Americans", who want to "do Europe in ten days" (no, I'm serious), who stop somewhere, yell "VERY NICE!!", take pho- tographs, don't have any consideration for local community life, think they are "nice guys" because they give away chewing gum and cigarettes, and think there is a "Europe" like there are United States. I happen to know there are other U.S.ers than these, but these are the one one normally meets over here. (Yes, I did exaggerate, but only a little bit.) I generally disagree with Piet on what he says, and I even generally disagree with Piet on how he says it, but why should I be right and he be wrong? And if really the whole world is against the U.S., well, then the whole world must be wrong, isn't it? >If criticizing governments strikes your fancy, then may I call your >attention to extremely high death rate in Cambodia, the Cuban troops in >Ethiopia, or the French arms industry. Why should we criticize that on an "American" network? Does that have any effect? Or do you want us to criticize for the sake of criticizing? >But if you happen to be like Piet and others; if you don't care about all >of politics, or all the things that the U.S. does, but only care about the >bad things that the U.S. does; if you only want to be anti-American, then I >have great contempt for you. > Greg Kuperberg See above. -- Biep. {seismo|decvax|philabs}!mcvax!vu44!botter!klipper!biep I utterly disagree with everything you are saying, but I am prepared to fight to the death for your right to say it. --Voltaire
kay@flame.UUCP (Kay Dekker) (12/21/84)
{0}
Greg Kuperberg says:
>If criticizing governments strikes your fancy, then may I call your
>attention to extremely high death rate in Cambodia, the Cuban troops in
>Ethiopia, or the French arms industry.
Certainly, Greg, please do call our European attention to these things.
It doesn't matter whether it's the US, the UK, the USSR, or anywhere else
that's doing them, they should be brought before us so that people can read,
learn, comment, and maybe try to DO something about it.
I don't think anyone who reads this could honestly say that their Government
has NEVER done anything they would be ashamed of; it would be more shameful
if, as you seem to imply, because {C, UN*X, chips, USENET, ...} were all
initiated in the US, that the US should be given a position of immunity
with regard to criticism via {C, UN*X, chips, USENET, ...}.
I don't see the nationalities of USENET contributors as being anything of
great importance. This is, surely, an institution that transcends such
boundaries. The fact that criticism of a government comes from a contributor
whose allegiance (?) is not to that government should not make that
criticism more or less valid in the eyes of the net.
I don't post often to this newsgroup, though I read it; it takes a good deal
to get me to brave the possible combustion that might ensue.
Kay.
--
"But what we need to know is, do people want nasally-insertable computers?"
... mcvax!ukc!flame!kay