ncg@ukc.UUCP (N.C.Gale) (01/18/85)
From: js2j@mhuxt.UUCP ( Jeff Sonntag)... > How is slavery defined? Haven't got a Webster's handy, but how about: >"Use (or threat of use) of force to cause an individual to act in a manner >contrary to their free will for an extended period of time." ... I just caught a glimpse of this howler before I erased the subject from my news, and I shan't be reading/answering any more of it. Doesn't the above definition include many things that it shouldn't, such as Prison, or even compulsory Education, or a lot of quite sensible laws: Drugs, Drinking&driving, Vandalism, etc Depends upon whether you include the threat of punishment in 'threat of use of force', I suppose
phl@drusd.UUCP (LavettePH) (01/24/85)
"Those who would enjoy the blessings of liberty must endure the burden of supporting it." - Thomas Payne I believe he wrote that at Washington's headquarters before the Continental Army's retreat to Valley Forge. People seemed to get the idea across with fewer words a couple of centuries ago, didn't they?
tlh@akgua.UUCP (T.L. Harris [Tom]) (01/24/85)
...
One other way of putting it is:
There ain't no Free Lunch!
--
...
From the Pond of the Phrog
akgua!AT**3cliff@unmvax.UUCP (01/26/85)
> "Those who would enjoy the blessings of liberty > must endure the burden of supporting it." > > - Thomas Payne > > I believe he wrote that at Washington's headquarters before the Continental > Army's retreat to Valley Forge. People seemed to get the idea across with > fewer words a couple of centuries ago, didn't they? Good to see another person taking my side! It is obvious that you can't support the blessings of liberty by taking away freedom. Or is it like telling a lie so the truth can be known? --Cliff
mwm@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA (01/26/85)
> "Those who would enjoy the blessings of liberty > must endure the burden of supporting it." > - Thomas Payne >I believe he wrote that at Washington's headquarters before the Continental >Army's retreat to Valley Forge. People seemed to get the idea across with >fewer words a couple of centuries ago, didn't they? Right. So let those who don't want the blessing not endure the burden, as opposed to throwing them in jail. <mike
faustus@ucbcad.UUCP (01/26/85)
> > "Those who would enjoy the blessings of liberty > > must endure the burden of supporting it." > > - Thomas Payne > >I believe he wrote that at Washington's headquarters before the Continental > >Army's retreat to Valley Forge. People seemed to get the idea across with > >fewer words a couple of centuries ago, didn't they? > > Right. So let those who don't want the blessing not endure the burden, > as opposed to throwing them in jail. > > <mike Oh, so you don't want liberty? Now I am confused... Wayne
mwm@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA (01/27/85)
In article <75@ucbcad.UUCP> faustus@ucbcad.UUCP writes: >> > "Those who would enjoy the blessings of liberty >> > must endure the burden of supporting it." >> > - Thomas Payne >> Right. So let those who don't want the blessing not endure the burden, >> as opposed to throwing them in jail. >> <mike >Oh, so you don't want liberty? No, Wayne, I didn't say I didn't want liberty. I said that those who didn't want liberty shouldn't have to pay for it. Of course, today you have to pay for it, but don't get it. > Now I am confused... > Wayne I knew that all along :-). <mike
faustus@ucbcad.UUCP (01/27/85)
> In article <75@ucbcad.UUCP> faustus@ucbcad.UUCP writes: > >> > "Those who would enjoy the blessings of liberty > >> > must endure the burden of supporting it." > >> > - Thomas Payne > >> Right. So let those who don't want the blessing not endure the burden, > >> as opposed to throwing them in jail. > >> <mike > >Oh, so you don't want liberty? > > No, Wayne, I didn't say I didn't want liberty. I said that those who didn't > want liberty shouldn't have to pay for it. Of course, today you have to pay > for it, but don't get it. So if there were a war, you would enlist in the army in order to protect your freedom? If everybody felt this way I would be happy to see conscription eliminated. I'm afraid, though, that most people aren't as likely to feel this way, but rather to let somebody else go and fight for their freedom because they are too shortsighted, or value their freedom too little to risk dying for it. In a case like this, it seems that if the freedom of a few people isn't compromised by conscription, then soon nobody will be free. (We assume that any nation attacking us is a totalitarian regime much less acceptable to libertarians than the present one.) Wayne