berman@ihlpg.UUCP (Andrew S. Berman) (01/28/85)
> When Vietnam >came, the killing stopped, but the famine started, and a second million >died. Did the Soviets send aid? No. Anyway, due to general hardships of >holocausts, another million Cambodians died in 1975-1985, for a total >of at least three million. But it's really ok, as long as the US is no >longer involved, right? > > Greg Kuperberg > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Can you honestly say that the interruption in food production in South East Asia, Vietnam, Laos, and Kampuchea was not due in large part to the massive bombing and herbicide-spraying for years on end? We know what Agent Orange has done to our own Vietnam Veterans. What the hell do you think it did to the people on the ground? Indeed the difficult times that Southeast Asia has experienced since the end of US military internvention, the hunger, the dislocation, and indeed the ravages of the Pol Pot regime can be blamed in large part on the massive destruction wrought upon thoses nations by the Johnson and Nixon regimes. At the Paris Peace Accords, the US (alias Henry Kissenger) pledged $20 Billion dollars to help rebuild southeast asia. Not one cent has been forthcoming. If you seek to blame all the sins of the world on the Soviets, that's too damn convenient. They sin plenty; but they aren't responsible for the crimes that have been committed by our administrations against the peoples of Southeast Asia, El Salavador, Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, ad infinitim. Work to right the wrongs...that's patriotism. Andy Berman
jcp@brl-tgr.ARPA (Joe Pistritto <jcp>) (01/29/85)
In article <111@ihlpg.UUCP> berman@ihlpg.UUCP (Andrew S. Berman) writes: >Can you honestly say that the interruption in food production in South >East Asia, Vietnam, Laos, and Kampuchea was not due in large part to >the massive bombing and herbicide-spraying for years on end? Wrongo! In a sub-tropical area, the effects (on plant growth, and hence food production) of using Agent Orange (really defoliant 2-4-5T, plus impurities [the source of the problem]), are unnoticable within 24 months. (This has been studied extensively by US Argiculture Dept. among others, 2-4-5T was used extensively in the US for years). If you've ever been in a tropical rain forest type area (India, Southeast Asia, South America), you will quicly realize that plants DO grow there after defoliants are used. The large amounts of rain those areas get helps. >At the Paris Peace Accords, the US (alias Henry Kissenger) pledged >$20 Billion dollars to help rebuild southeast asia. Not one cent >has been forthcoming. This aid was dependent on Hanoi fullfilling the terms of the accords, (like not invading South Vietnam, and providing a full accounting for the missing in action) > Andy Berman This is not to say that the long running war with the US didn't make matters worse, but it interesting to note that Vietnam (the country most affected by the war), faired considerably better in repairing the damage, then did Cambodia (Kampuchea). This difference is undoubtably due to the actions of the Pol Pot regime, not the US. Joe Pistritto
gjk@talcott.UUCP (Greg Kuperberg) (02/02/85)
> Can you honestly say that the interruption in food production in South > East Asia, Vietnam, Laos, and Kampuchea was not due in large part to > the massive bombing and herbicide-spraying for years on end? We know > what Agent Orange has done to our own Vietnam Veterans. What the hell > do you think it did to the people on the ground? Indeed the difficult > times that Southeast Asia has experienced since the end of US military > internvention, the hunger, the dislocation, and indeed the ravages of the > Pol Pot regime can be blamed in large part on the massive destruction wrought upon > thoses nations by the Johnson and Nixon regimes. And the current problems in Soviet farming are due to Ghengis Khan, right? You are confusing different time periods and different countries. We bombed Cambodia in 1970. We bombed Vietnam much more than we bombed Cambodia. Mass-famine happened in Cambodia AFTER the Vietnamese invaded 1978. Vietnam has not had nearly as much starvation as Cambodia. > If you seek to blame all the sins of the world on the Soviets, that's too > damn convenient. They sin plenty; but they aren't responsible > for the crimes that have been committed by our administrations against > the peoples of Southeast Asia, El Salavador, Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, > ad infinitim. I agree with you that our foreign policy is far from perfect. But believe it or not, the two sentences "The U.S. made grave errors in Southeast Asia," and "The holocaust in Southeast Asia was essentially due to Soviet and Chinese involvement" are not contradictory. I believe both of them. > Work to right the wrongs...that's patriotism. ... > Andy Berman As far as I can tell, you wish interpret every political situation in such a way as to blame the Reagan and Nixon Administrations. By doing so you not only misrepresent those governments, but also the U.S. in general. Although I have serious objections to Reagan's way of running the country, I do not wish to blame every political problem I can think of on him. I will the thought that his intentions but not his methods can be correct in some cases, or his methods but not his intentions can be correct, or perhaps that both his methods and his intentions can be correct. In any case, it is often more meaningful to judge political actions on a comparitive basis. It is better to ask, "How much better would Mondale have been than Reagan?" rather than, "How bad is Reagan?", and it is better to ask, "Would South Africa be better off if it had a revolution?" rather than, "Is South Africa bad off?" --- Greg Kuperberg harvard!talcott!gjk "Nice boy, but about as sharp as a sack of wet mice." - Foghorn Leghorn