orb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER) (02/05/85)
> > This is not the first request for a libertarian to explain > > the apparant blindness towards economic concentration of > > power as an integral part of the state. > > > > If we're going to do away with big government I'd rather > > not have IBM fill the vacuum, though we could do worse. > > This isn't the first person I've noticed who seems to think that if > we can get big government off of our backs, IBM (or ANY huge corporation) > will just be able to 'step in' and fill the power vacuum. Sort of > like Baron Greenback: "... and in the resulting chaos, *I* will step in > and take over the world!" I've often wondered just how he was going > to go about that. No problem! Nature abhors a vacuum, right? Wrong, > obviously, since 99.9999...% of the volume of the universe is full of > vacuum. > So I ask: Which of the functions of government which would be > discarded by libertarians would a huge multinational corporation be > able to take over? (With profit, and without losing dozens of class > action lawsuits?) Or is this 'IBM filling the vacuum' stuff just > empty rhetoric? > -- > Jeff Sonntag > ihnp4!mhuxt!js2j You're right! I am quite sure that big corporations will not enforce worker's rights to grievance procedures, the eight hour day, antipollution laws, or safety regulations in industry. On the other hand, as I have previously pointed out, Standard Oil at the turn of the century controlled 99% of the oil industry in the U.S. While free market devotees keep trying to wish this fact away by somehow ascribing it to "government regulation" they have yet to specify exactly what government regulations led to this situation. Nor do they specify how the miraculous free market is going to bring countervailing political pressure to challenge such control. We have seen what an amorphous grouping of nations with varying aims and interests can do to the world economy with the example of OPEC's oil embargo. What would be the effects of having the entire domestic oil industry under *one* unified corporation? Or how about other industries which could potentially become monopolies? IBM has been constrained from even greater control of the computer market by the successful suit by CDC and other rival computer manufacturers. I have seen no suggestions for antitrust activity or steps to insure that the free market assumptions of many buyers and sellers are met in Libertarian proposals. JCL FOREVER!!!! tim sevener whuxl!orb
js2j@mhuxt.UUCP (sonntag) (02/05/85)
> > > not have IBM fill the vacuum, though we could do worse. > > > > This isn't the first person I've noticed who seems to think that if > > we can get big government off of our backs, IBM (or ANY huge corporation) > > will just be able to 'step in' and fill the power vacuum. Sort of > > like Baron Greenback: "... and in the resulting chaos, *I* will step in > > and take over the world!" I've often wondered just how he was going > > to go about that. > > So I ask: Which of the functions of government which would be > > discarded by libertarians would a huge multinational corporation be > > able to take over? (With profit, and without losing dozens of class > > action lawsuits?) Or is this 'IBM filling the vacuum' stuff just > > empty rhetoric? > > Jeff Sonntag Sevener admits that 'filling the vacuum' was empty rhetoric, and goes on to another subject: > You're right! I am quite sure that big corporations will not enforce > worker's rights to grievance procedures, the eight hour day, antipollution > laws, or safety regulations in industry. Workers and their unions can take care of their own rights quite nicely, even without the governments help. Of course, union floor sweepers in Detroit might not make 14$/hr, but tons of people willing to work for less will find jobs. About anti-pollution laws and safety regulations - is anyone seriously hoping to discard these? > On the other hand, as I have previously pointed out, Standard Oil > at the turn of the century controlled 99% of the oil industry in the > U.S. While free market devotees keep trying to wish this fact away > by somehow ascribing it to "government regulation" they have yet to > specify exactly what government regulations led to this situation. If Standard Oil, through the use of monopoly type power, kept the price of oil or oil products much above efficient costs, why didn't people start competing companies in order to make some of the huge profits? If they didn't keep the prices high, why are you complaining? > IBM has been constrained from even greater control of the computer market > by the successful suit by CDC and other rival computer manufacturers. I always thought it was the generally poor quality of their software and their silly EPSIDIC (sp?) code which kept them from greater control of the computer market. Would you mind telling us about this suit, Tim? I hadn't heard of it. -- Jeff Sonntag ihnp4!mhuxt!js2j < Dangermouse stumbles through door, falls in front of giant robot.> Robot: You are wise to prostrate yourself before my 50 megabyte floppies. Have you brought a RAM pack assembly for me? DM: No, but I've got a pretty sheepish assistant. Robot: Unacceptable. An illogical peripheral with a 17 byte brain. Where are his subroutines? Penfold: Uh ... They're in my third drawer down, right next to my wooly vests.