[net.politics] reply to Graham, re guns. 'n' onward.

regard@ttidcc.UUCP (Adrienne Regard) (02/26/85)

>From: graham@shark.UUCP (Graham Bromley)

>> What is more discouraging is that those who advocate gun
>> control are arguing their emotions not reality and like all
>> advocates of emotional responses will do more harm than good.
>
>    No.
>
>    12000 murders by handgun every year is not a flight of
>fancy. It is a very disturbing reality. Some people may
>even get emotional about it. Especially a person who counts
>a relative among the 12000.
>
>    Far more Americans have been killed by other Americans with
>handguns since the Vietnam War than the North Vietnamese
>killed during the entire war. Something wrong there?
>

Graham, I identify with your emotionalism discussing this issue.  Even
when one is completely rational, am emotional listener will color one's
argument.  One of those things people do, I guess.

I was thinking about this issue again recently, with the subway shootings
and all, and realized that, each time I hear of a child being killed through
an accident, or some crazed lover who blows away his girlfriend, I rethink
my stand on gun control.  My question to you, (and others) is, each time
you hear of someone successfully defending him/erself against a crook/thug/
whathaveyou, do you rethink your position?  I _don't_ mean: do you change
your mind.  I mean: do you consider, once again, which freedoms you value
and what you consider the best of all possible worlds will be?  I am
confident that, as long as I keep looking at the question, my opinion will
reflect considered values and evidence, rather than "emotional" or "knee-
jerk" reactions.  And I am confident that people who disagree with me,
who are able to requestion their stance, have a valid and worthy opinion
for consideration.

However, it would be better if you didn't quote out of context, e.g.:

>> Every upstanding citizen over 16 is licensed to carry, like
>>  driving a car.
>
>    Not true. It is strictly illegal in almost every state
>to carry a gun, unless you have a permit. Such permits are
>quite difficult to obtain in most states. I believe Wyoming
>is one state where you can carry a sidearm, so long as it
>isn't concealed.

The original appeared as part of a facetious recommendation directed to
those who feel some sort of control should be instituted.  I say facetious
because I don't actually recommend this course of action.  It was _not_
a statement of any reality in the U.S. today.

As well, characterising the opponents to your point of view as crazies
causes a little trouble:

>    Some of the most ardent gun advocates are the neo-Nazi
>types, you know, the sadistic morons who run around in the
>woods with their machine guns, preparing for the coming
>'race war'. I don't regard these as right minded Americans,
>and I doubt whether they will stave off tyrants in support
>of democracy when the time comes. These kinds of scum are
>out to destroy individual rights, not protect them.
>(Strong words but well deserved; no apology).

Yeh, no question.  Some anti-control people are crazy.  You'd be
surprised how many pro-control people are crazy, too,  but what does
that have to do with the validity of the stand?

If everyone in our country were crazy, we'd have a bunch of crazy laws,
that all sane people would consider completely wild, but that is the way a
democracy functions.  The "most ardent" advocates are just that - ardent.
The more important question is how many advocates (whether ardent, neo-Nazi
or perfectly civil, quiet, even non-gun-owning) there are that will support
this particular freedom.  Currently the answer is: more than oppose it.
For now. The profile of the advocate is no more important in the pro-
agrument than the con- argument.

Besides, it makes (emotional) people mad at you, and (rational) people
discount what you are saying.  I should know, I do it all the time!

I'd mail this to you, but the path comes back "not found".