mck@ratex.UUCP (Daniel Kian Mc Kiernan) (03/26/85)
Lines marked '>' are from Mike Kelly. >(a) There is no difference between authoritarian and totalitarian regimes. Actually, at one time there was a difference in degree, but current usage has blurred the distinction. > It is an invention of Jeanne Kirkpatrick to justify her support for > some tyrants and her denunciation of others. There is no question that Kirkpatrick has a great deal of responsiblity for the confusion, especially as the countries that she calls 'authoritarian' are often worse (based on the reports of Amnesty International) than those that she calls 'totalitarian'. > Torture is torture. That's good rhetoric, but bad philosophy. I'm more interested in stopping death camps than an ocassional broken finger. This does not mean that I find, say, what happens in Poland acceptable -- just that I'm more upset by Kampuchea. >(b) Do you believe there is a military solution for the world's problems? Nope. > If not, then you either believe there is no solution (a pretty uninspired > position) or you believe in a political solution. That depends on how broad a concept you mean by 'a political solution'. I do not believe in an ACTIVIST role for the U.S. government. There was a time when the U.S. had an enormous effect on the oppressed peoples of the world, simply by setting an (admittedly flawed) example. Now, a great deal of the world associates us with subsidization of the dictatorships under which they live; things are so bad that they actually look to the USSR for liberation. > The U.N. is the > world's political forum. NO! NO!! NO!!! The U.N. is NOT the WORLD's political forum; it is a forum for the OPPRESSORS of the world! > We may not like all the other nations of the > world, but we have to live with them (unless you believe in a military > solution). I have to live with a lot of people. That doesn't mean that I'm going to invite them over for tea, or give them boards with which they can beat their children. > The U.N. represents our attempt to live with them. The U.N. may represent YOUR attempt to live with them; it is certainly not mine. And whose ever attempt it is, it is a thoroughly failed attempt. Providing oppressors with a forum to spout-off doesn't keep them from oppressing; in fact, it often helps them to organize their oppression. And giving them other resources hardly serves to diminish their power. > I think > the U.S. can well afford the money we put into it. Similarly, we can well afford to subsidize the Sicilian Mafia (maybe if we do then they'll behave)! > It's a very small > fraction of the money we invest in the military "solution." Ahh. Since there's an even dumber approach (imperialism), then the U.N. must be the smart approach! Similarly, since it's dumber to drive nails with your eyeball, you should use your fist!?! Try again! DKMcK
mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) (03/28/85)
>> The U.N. is the >> world's political forum. > >NO! NO!! NO!!! The U.N. is NOT the WORLD's political forum; it is a >forum for the OPPRESSORS of the world! > >> We may not like all the other nations of the >> world, but we have to live with them (unless you believe in a military >> solution). > >I have to live with a lot of people. That doesn't mean that I'm going to >invite them over for tea, or give them boards with which they can beat >their children. > >> The U.N. represents our attempt to live with them. > >The U.N. may represent YOUR attempt to live with them; it is certainly not >mine. And whose ever attempt it is, it is a thoroughly failed attempt. >Providing oppressors with a forum to spout-off doesn't keep them from >oppressing; in fact, it often helps them to organize their oppression. And >giving them other resources hardly serves to diminish their power. > I guess Peru is one of the oppressors of the world, then. So is Nicaragua, Chad, Afghanistan ... The list of countries that have brought their grievances before the UN in recent years goes on and on. The OPPRESSORS do their talking elsewhere, through force of arms and covert aid to terrorists. They tend to get annoyed when Third World countries mention their oppressive tactics, and to denounce the UN as a tool of the other side. The US thinks of the UN as a tool of the USSR, and the Russians probably think the converse. The UN is the ONLY place (other than a formal action before the World Court) where a small country can stand up and be heard, and where they can group together to oppose the plans of the oppressors. Sure, the UN hasn't toed the US line for years, but then the US line hasn't often been very nice to small countries, especially ones striving to attain democracy. Neither has the Russian line, and I haven't seen much evidence that the UN supports the USSR even as much as it supports the US. On balance, we are probably the less feared side, but it's a close balance. -- Martin Taylor {allegra,linus,ihnp4,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt {uw-beaver,qucis,watmath}!utcsri!dciem!mmt