mjk@ttrdc.UUCP (Mike Kelly) (05/06/85)
>From: myers@uwmacc.UUCP (Jeff Myers) >In Chile the govt of Salvador >Allende was deposed thru economic sanctions and support for the military >coup in 1973 (and for the aborted one in 1970). In Nicaragua, the >strategy is economically similar, but since the military in Nicaragua is >friendly to the revolution, the military pressure must come from outside >the country. That's right. By the way, critics of Nicaraguan censorship should remember that the La Prensa of Chile (El Mercurio, I believe) was CIA-controlled and contributed significantly to the general sense of turmoil and destabilization the CIA successfully cultivated against Allende. This is not to justify Sandinista censorship (I think it does them more harm than good), but simply to put it in the proper context. The Sandinistas are determined not to be undermined by internal subversion, which they (rightly or wrongly) see La Prensa as being. Mike Kelly
rrizzo@bbncca.ARPA (Ron Rizzo) (05/08/85)
WHERE PARALLELS PART WAYS The methods of US aggression may be similar in the cases of both Chile and Nicaragua, but the regimes under attack aren't similar. Democratic socialist Allende was ELECTED and headed a parliamentary coalition that was forced to include Chilean Communists out of political expediency. The junta in Managua that calls itself Sandinist seized power by force, has purged democratic members or made them fall into line in an authori- tarian regime, & is a militaristic dictatorship, many of whose key members have either received training in Communist bloc countries or were National Guards or flunkies under the previous (Somoza) dictatorship. Finally, the Pinochet-Kissinger-CIA coup destroyed one of the oldest continuosly existing parliamentary democracies in the western hemi- sphere. Nicaraguan history is riddled with dictatorship & foreign intervention. Ron Rizzo
gtaylor@lasspvax.UUCP (Greg Taylor) (05/08/85)
In article <> rrizzo@bbncca.ARPA (Ron Rizzo) writes: >WHERE PARALLELS PART WAYS > >Nicaraguan history is riddled with dictatorship & foreign >intervention. > An ironic end to a technically correct analysis of the differences between Chile and Nicaragua. Nicaraguan history sure *is* fulla dictators-most with the last name of DeBayle (lesse-there's Anastazio, and his father, and his grandfather....). Lotsa foreign intervention too. Ours. Granted that Chile and Nicaragua ain't the same zone, same home, same reasons. But do you think that the Reaganistas make that sort of foreign policy distinction? Especially if Chile is mentioned as an example of past Red meddling (reddling?) in "our sphere of influence". Hands off Afghanistan, but gimme Nicaragua back. -- ________________________________________________________________________________ Once I was young:once I was smart:now I'm living on the edge of my nerves:-Japan Gregory Alan Taylor:162 Clark Hall:Cornell University:Ithaca,NY 14850:USA USENET: {cmcl2,decvax,ihnp4}!cornell!lasspvax!gtaylor ARPANET: gtaylor@lasspvax.arpa BITNET: gtaylor@crnlthry.bitnet ________________________________________________________________________________
gadfly@ihu1m.UUCP (Gadfly) (05/08/85)
-- > The junta in Managua that calls itself Sandinist seized power by > force, has purged democratic members or made them fall into line > in an authoritarian regime, & is a militaristic dictatorship, many > of whose key members have either received training in Communist bloc > countries or were National Guards or flunkies under the previous > (Somoza) dictatorship. > > Ron Rizzo Training in Communist countries is certainly believable, but the notion that members of the Sandinista government might be crypto-Somozans seems ludicrous on its face. I'd love to see some substantiation of this claim. By referring to the Sandinistas as authoritarian dictators, Ron, you make it sound as if they rule with an oppressive, iron hand. The impression I get from people who have been in Nicaragua is that the regime has great popular support. The best evidence for this is that the people--*NOT* an elite police force, but all the citizenry--is armed. Unpopular tyrants can't allow that sort of thing. But even if they were tyrants, since when has the US cared about democracy in Central America? We've been responsible for some of the most brutally oppressive regimes in the region. -- *** *** JE MAINTIENDRAI ***** ***** ****** ****** 08 May 85 [19 Floreal An CXCIII] ken perlow ***** ***** (312)979-7188 ** ** ** ** ..ihnp4!iwsl8!ken *** ***
tonyw@ubvax.UUCP (Tony Wuersch) (05/08/85)
Re La Prensa in Managua, I've recently had the opportunity to give advice
to a friend who was writing to the Nation in response to some articles
about suppression of human rights in Nicaragua. The points I made to
him apply here too:
1. Moralities and protections of human rights can differ from normal,
peaceful times in times of war.
2. Two areas they can differ in is in draft mobilizations and protection
of absolute press freedoms (I don't accept, on the other hand, preventive
detentions, for instance).
3. Our worries about suppressions of press freedoms, etc., would be
justified if those suppressions were not REVOCABLE. I think that's a
general principle, that those weakenings of human rights protections
applied in warfare must be revocable when the war has ended.
4. Hence, if Nicaragua is at war, than we should properly defend the
right of La Prensa to continue to publish and not be shut down, but we
can't reasonably complain if the Sandinistas decide to apply censorship
during wartime. The Israeli government does no less, and it isn't even
in a state of war.
I believe Nicaragua is at war against the contras and their CIA/Somozista
supporters. The evidence of invasion and death is everywhere within the
country. Hence I question the political motives of those who continually
harp on La Prensa censorship. Let's wait until the war is over before we
apply harsh judgments, please.
Tony Wuersch
{amd,amdcad}!cae780!ubvax!tonywekrell@ucla-cs.UUCP (05/09/85)
In article <173@ttrdc.UUCP> mjk@ttrdc.UUCP (Mike Kelly) writes: > >By the way, critics of Nicaraguan censorship should remember >that the La Prensa of Chile (El Mercurio, I believe) was CIA-controlled and >contributed significantly to the general sense of turmoil and destabilization >the CIA successfully cultivated against Allende. "CIA-controlled" and "contributed significantly" are overstatements. El Mercurio was at the time the only moderated newspaper that resembles what we know as a newspaper today. I remember some newspapers like "El Clarin", "Puro Chile" and some others that were totally controlled by the Unidad Popular (the governemt party). These newspapers were nothing else but a propaganda tool for the marxist regime. The headlines of these newspapers (and the language used) were unbelievable. Also, trying to compare that situation with "La Prensa" in Nicaragua is nonsense. The Allende government never attempted to censor "El Mercurio" and it certainly didn't see in it a destabilization factor. Also, during the Allende government there were a large number of political forums in TV and Radio programs, where politicians from both left and right wing were invited to discuss. No such thing in Nicaragua. Just like in the USSR or an East European country, the government denies the freedom of speech to opposing viewpoints and makes sure that the people hear and see what they (the Sandinistas) want them to... -- Eduardo Krell UCLA Computer Science Department ekrell@ucla-locus.arpa ..!{sdcrdcf,ihnp4,trwspp,ucbvax}!ucla-cs!ekrell
oaf@mit-vax.UUCP ([Oded Anoaf Feingold]) (05/09/85)
In article <1423@bbncca.ARPA> rrizzo@bbncca.ARPA (Ron Rizzo) writes: >The junta in Managua that calls itself Sandinist seized power by force, >has purged democratic members or made them fall into line in an authori- >tarian regime, & is a militaristic dictatorship, MANY OF WHOSE KEY >MEMBERS HAVE EITHER RECEIVED TRAINING IN COMMUNIST BLOC COUNTRIES OR >WERE NATIONAL GUARDS OR FLUNKIES UNDER THE PREVIOUS (SOMOZA) DICTATORSHIP. (Caps mine.) [Apologies to the readership for the lengthy inclusion.] Fascinating. Name one key member of the junta in Managua who was "a National Guard or flunky under Somoza." Thanks. -- Oded Feingold {decvax, harvard}!mitvax!oaf MIT AI Lab oaf%oz@mit-mc.ARPA 545 Tech Sq. 617-253-8598 work Cambridge, Mass. 02139 617-371-1796 home