tjj@ssc-vax.UUCP (T J Jardine) (05/01/85)
It is with pleasure that I hear that the students are concerned about what is going on in South Africa. I only wish that the students and the other folks who are currently expressing their concern would have the integrity and decency to inform themselves and really, really examine the issues before running off at the mouth. I have yet to find anyone, save perhaps a few exhiled "Bantu", who have experienced conditions in South Africa. I do not in any way favor Apartheid. I do not condone the actions and attitudes of the Nationalist government in South Africa. In fact, my wife and I spent two years living in South Africa. The question that everyone seems either to have missed, or that they simply ignore, is this: How does one transition from the condition in which the non-white populace currently exists to the condition which is to be desired? The last thing that one would want is to make the condition of the non-white worse than it is now. Yet those who suggest that the US companies doing business in South Africa pull out would do just that. Perhaps only a small percent of the non-white population is directly benefited by the policies of the US companies, but at least that shows what can be done and more than anything it provides HOPE. I have personally seen what US companies in Johannesburg, Cape Town, and Durban have done to improve wages, working conditions, and opportunities for non-whites. Some other facts to consider: The non-white population of South Africa is not monolithic. In fact the Indians consider themselves apart from the Coloured (non-whites of mixed racial heritage), and there are fourteen major tribal divisions of the Black African (or Bantu - a generic name equivalent to the word 'people'). While the wages and working conditions in the mines are bad compared to US or European standards, it is a significant opportunity compared to living conditions outside of South Africa. A Black African can come from his homeland; work on the mines; be provided with food, clothing, shelter; learn to read and write; and return in 5-10 years with enough saved up to live like a king in his own homeland. This doesn't justify the treatment he receives nor the enforced separation from his family. But it ought to give pause to those who believe that all non-whites are ground into the dirt. What I believe the Black African in particular, and the non-white in general, really need is to be treated with respect and dignity. Don't enfranchise them and expect that they will do anything but fall on their face. Improve their educational opportunities, remove the fear of the knock on the door in the middle of the night (it does exist in South Africa), and steadily improve their opportunities for jobs and housing. Give them the franchise, not as if they were little children, but so that they have an opportunity to learn and assimilate. Start with voting and participation in government at the village or town level and work up. Realize that the traditional values in Black African society are not the same as ours. Many of the Black African friends we left in South Africa would be glad to go to their grave knowing that their children would have these kind of opportunities. And most important of all, keep those who would foment rebellion and turmoil away from southern Africa. How can one learn to govern oneself or learn anything else with a lot of racket and noise in one's ear? Enough! I think the problem can be solved. Not overnight. And especially not as the demonstrators in the US seem to think -- by estranging the very people that they profess to help. I support the right of the demonstrators to sleep on the steps of their university library, but also ask them not to be surprised when they wake up with boot prints on their foreheads. The Afrikaner sincerely believes that he was given dominion over the southern portion of the African continent by God Himself more than 350 years ago. TJ (with Amazing Grace) The Piper ...uw-beaver!ssc-vax!bcsaic!ted -- TJ (with Amazing Grace) The Piper Boeing Artificial Intelligence Center ...uw-beaver!ssc-vax!bcsaic!ted
mazer@ucla-cs.UUCP (05/01/85)
> I realize that the net is not in general considered a polit- > ical forum, But the net has grown. I hope and I pray that > those of you who read this will do so with an open mind and > heart. > > On campuses across the nation students have been trying > to do just the smallest amount to end the apartheid slavery > in South Africa, of South Africans. How can we continue to > ignore such a situation as this? If one is to consider > slavery the restriction of free movement, then South Africa > is true a slave nation in this century. Her native people > may not leave there labor camps. Yes they are paid, but not > even enough to eat. Money is only as good as the food it > buys. > > It is not the time or the place to go into the depth of > the problems in South Africa in this article. All I ask is > that you people read this, think about it and begin to dis- > cuss it in the appropriate groups*. Please at least listen > to what has been going on down there for just all too long. > If a near by University is holding a sit in or a teach in, > go to it, you may learn something. > > Please excuse the quality of my writing, between 100 > and 200 of us have been sleeping on the library steps at the > University of California at San Diego for four nights now. > We have stage sit-ins and teach-ins with various professors > speaking. We have had marches and rallies with up to 2000 > members of our very small student body attending. I feel it > is a worth while movement, and I hope that we may receive > the support of the net. > > Thank you for your time. If you have any questions or > comments for our group we also have a pay phone by our > sleeping bags, (619) 457-9179. [This number is meaningful > until May 15 - MRH.] > > Richard Stewart. > > (general disclaimer, all opinions here are my own, and if > you want to sue me I probably don't have enough money for it > to be worth your while) > > [* net.politics is suggested - followups to this message are > automatically posted to net.politics.] *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
bakken@fluke.UUCP (Greg Bakken) (05/02/85)
I feel that apartheid is certainly abhorrent, and should be replaced with a
form of government that represents all of the people. The people of South
Africa are certainly being deprived of their Inalienable Rights of Life,
Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. It is certainly a noble task to try
and put pressure on its government to change.
South Africa is not the only enslaved nation in the world, however.
Undoubtedly the worst is the Soviet Union, where the whole country is in
bondage except for the bourgeois at the top of the Communist Party hierarchy
who do as they please, in the name of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" or
to forward the "revolution" (which is indeed a cruel irony). Their
atrocities are too numerous to begin to list here; suffice to note that if the
269 people that were killed in the Korean Airlines Massacre were the only ones
murdered by the Soviets on that day, it would be a below average day in the
history of the Soviet regime.
I would like Mr. Stewart and others protesters to ask themselves the following
question: Do you protest against a variety of governments, both Communist and
non-Communist, or mainly against the one or two that happen to be "popular"
at the time (and are, curiously, almost never Communist governments)?
Greg Bakken
John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc.;PO Box C9090;MS 269D;Everett WA 98206;(206) 356-6298
{uw-beaver,decvax!microsof,ucbvax!lbl-csam,allegra,ssc-vax}!fluke!bakken
"Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of management... etc. ad naseum."grl@charm.UUCP (George Lake) (05/03/85)
References: <1102@cbosgd.UUCP>, <574@vax2.fluke.UUCP> Greg Bakken asks if the students are protesting all governments where people are enslaved-- including those that are communists. The students are protesting the fact that the University involves there is a real point to divestment that WE DON'T WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN THESE ACTIONS
rich@sdcc13.UUCP (rich) (05/04/85)
In article <574@vax2.fluke.UUCP> bakken@fluke.UUCP (Greg Bakken) writes: > > >I would like Mr. Stewart and others protesters to ask themselves the following >question: Do you protest against a variety of governments, both Communist and >non-Communist, or mainly against the one or two that happen to be "popular" >at the time (and are, curiously, almost never Communist governments)? > > > Greg Bakken > > >John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc.;PO Box C9090;MS 269D;Everett WA 98206;(206) 356-6298 >{uw-beaver,decvax!microsof,ucbvax!lbl-csam,allegra,ssc-vax}!fluke!bakken >"Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of management... etc. ad naseum." I can only speak for myself, so here it goes, I protest for a free world, free of hunger, free of disease, free of mans' general inhumanity to man. I take part in this protest here (University of California San Diego) as it is a peaceful one. It has the chance to do more good than harm. I do realize some do not agree with that last statement. OK, here is the part that i am sure i will be badly flamed on.. I protest no government simply on it's name, Communist or other. A governments actions is not define by the title it chooses to call itself. I do know that it is supposed to work that way in the history books, but i do not see it as such. Each government must be taken on its own merits. I do ask myself every so often if I am a part of this because it is a stylish belief. I hope conviction against inhumanity are never just a matter of style. Thank you for being interested enough to reply. -rich stewart
gam@amdahl.UUCP (G A Moffett) (05/09/85)
I think all articles written about how students care about the
world should be read with Elgar's "Pomp and Circumstance", or
some other stirring theme, played in the backround....
--
Gordon A. Moffett ...!{ihnp4,cbosgd,sun}!amdahl!gambcr@sbcs.UUCP (Bill Rogers) (05/23/85)
> > I feel that apartheid is certainly abhorrent, and should be replaced with a > form of government that represents all of the people. The people of South > Africa are certainly being deprived of their Inalienable Rights of Life, > Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. It is certainly a noble task to try > and put pressure on its government to change. > > South Africa is not the only enslaved nation in the world, however. > Undoubtedly the worst is the Soviet Union, where the whole country is in > bondage except for the bourgeois at the top of the Communist Party hierarchy > who do as they please, in the name of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" or > to forward the "revolution" (which is indeed a cruel irony). Their > atrocities are too numerous to begin to list here; suffice to note that if the > 269 people that were killed in the Korean Airlines Massacre were the only ones > murdered by the Soviets on that day, it would be a below average day in the > history of the Soviet regime. > > I would like Mr. Stewart and others protesters to ask themselves the following > question: Do you protest against a variety of governments, both Communist and > non-Communist, or mainly against the one or two that happen to be "popular" > at the time (and are, curiously, almost never Communist governments)? > > > Greg Bakken > > > John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc.;PO Box C9090;MS 269D;Everett WA 98206;(206) 356-6298 > {uw-beaver,decvax!microsof,ucbvax!lbl-csam,allegra,ssc-vax}!fluke!bakken > "Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of management... etc. ad naseum." *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** w one two three ... testing q :q :quit :write :ex