barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold) (05/25/85)
If one should only take pride in what one oneself is, then it's a knotty philosophic problem as to whether one is morally entitled to pride in the achievements of one's past. (Certainly it's easy enough to say that one has outgrown the stupidities of one's youth and shouldn't be ashamed of them any more. By the same token, if one's gotten lazy, is one entitled to pridefully boast about the accomplishments of one's long lost youth?) In practice, one takes pride in ANYTHING one identifies with. And for most of us that takes in a lot of territory. Our youth, our family, our friends, our co-workers, our co-religionists, our compatriots, our fellow women (or men), our fellow humans--and once we contact the dolphins or Martians or whatever--our fellow sentients. First convince a sports fan not to be proud of the home team. Then come back and tell the net alll you've learned about pride. --Lee Gold
mms1646@acf4.UUCP (Michael M. Sykora) (05/28/85)
>/* barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold) / 1:52 pm May 25, 1985 */ >. . . identifies with. And for >most of us that takes in a lot of territory. Our youth, our family, >our friends, our co-workers, our co-religionists, our compatriots, our >fellow women (or men), our fellow humans--and once we contact the dolphins >or Martians or whatever--our fellow sentients. How about yourself??
dmcanzi@watdcsu.UUCP (David Canzi) (05/30/85)
In article <2024@sdcrdcf.UUCP> barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold) writes: >If one should only take pride in what one oneself is, then it's a knotty >philosophic problem as to whether one is morally entitled to pride in the >achievements of one's past. (Certainly it's easy enough to say that one >has outgrown the stupidities of one's youth and shouldn't be ashamed of >them any more. By the same token, if one's gotten lazy, is one entitled >to pridefully boast about the accomplishments of one's long lost youth?) I never said you should take pride in what you *are*, only in what you have done. Allowing pride in what you *are* leaves the door open for some unpleasant things, such as some people going around being proud to be white. Disallowing it, though, has the effect of disallowing another group of people from going around being proud to be black. You can allow it for blacks and disallow it for whites, but I care too much for consistency to do that. (The word pride has more than one meaning, and I've tried, once or twice, to define which meaning I intend by it... one more try... the meaning I intend is the pride you feel when you have done something that you think is great. When you feel pride in the deed of some other person of the same race/sex/handedness, is it the same feeling you would feel if it were your own accomplishment? If yes, this is the attitude that I have been trying to say doesn't make sense, at least not to me. If no, never mind.) About your question... I think it makes sense to treat pride and shame in a similar manner, ie. If your pride in past deeds outlasts your shame in past misdeeds, you're resting on your laurels. If your shame outlasts your pride, you're punishing yourself needlessly. I'm not about to claim that I've managed to live up to this ideal... >In practice, one takes pride in ANYTHING one identifies with. And for >most of us that takes in a lot of territory. Our youth, our family, >our friends, our co-workers, our co-religionists, our compatriots, our >fellow women (or men), our fellow humans--and once we contact the dolphins >or Martians or whatever--our fellow sentients. > >First convince a sports fan not to be proud of the home team. Then come >back and tell the net alll you've learned about pride. Y'know, I've occasionally caught myself feeling proud because the Milky Way galaxy, *my* galaxy, is larger than most... doesn't make sense, but there it is. -- David Canzi "All in all you're just another prick in the stall." -- men's room graffiti