rwsh@hound.UUCP (R.STUBBLEFIELD) (05/21/85)
"Libertarianism: The Perversion of Liberty" is an article by Peter Schwartz appearing in the latest issue of THE INTELLECTUAL ACTIVIST. [Volume III, Numbers 19 & 20, May 10, 1985, TIA, 131 Fifth Avenue, Suite 101, New York, NY 10003 $44/20 issues] The article is a searing and devastating indictment of libertarianism. I find it hard to believe that anyone in favor of liberty could continue to be associated with libertarianism after they read the first installment (14 pages). This news item is not an attempt to start discussion but a plea to lovers of liberty to do some serious thinking about lending any support to libertarianism. If you are interested in seeing a copy of Schwartz's article, you might try a local Objectivism club. Bob Stubblefield 201-949-2846 hound!rwsh
jj@alice.UUCP (05/22/85)
Mr. Stubblefield: Please do not confuse Libertarianism with any set of ideas or ideals that other people insist on associating with it. It is true that any smaller group has a less well known identity, and is therefore more vulnerable to those who would presume on the name, identity, or ideals. -- TEDDY BEARS ARE OPINIONATED! AFTER ALL, SOMEONE HAS TO BE RIGHT! "Then one said to the other, I think we must be gone, We'll leave a present for our friend before me move along..." (ihnp4/allegra)!alice!jj
thau@h-sc1.UUCP (robert thau) (05/23/85)
> TEDDY BEARS ARE OPINIONATED! AFTER ALL, SOMEONE HAS TO BE RIGHT! > "Then one said to the other, I think we must be gone, > We'll leave a present for our friend before me move along..." > > (ihnp4/allegra)!alice!jj jj!!!! Back so soon? -- Robert Thau \ Keeper of the *FLAME* )) rst@tardis.ARPA ( ( h-sc1%thau@harvard.ARPA \\
mms1646@acf4.UUCP (Michael M. Sykora) (05/24/85)
>/* rwsh@hound.UUCP (R.STUBBLEFIELD) / 3:01 pm May 21, 1985 */ >. . . The article is a searing and devastating indictment >of libertarianism. I find it hard to believe that anyone in favor of liberty >could continue to be associated with libertarianism after they read the first >installment (14 pages). This news item is not an attempt to start discussion >but a plea to lovers of liberty to do some serious thinking about lending any >support to libertarianism. If you are interested in seeing a copy of >Schwartz's article, you might try a local Objectivism club. > >Bob Stubblefield 201-949-2846 hound!rwsh Wow! You really "blasted" us with that one, Bob! Why not whet our appetites with a few choice "searing and devastating indictments?"
rwsh@hound.UUCP (R.STUBBLEFIELD) (05/29/85)
>>/* rwsh@hound.UUCP (R.STUBBLEFIELD) / 3:01 pm May 21, 1985 */ >>. . . The article is a searing and devastating indictment >>of libertarianism. I find it hard to believe that anyone in favor of liberty >>could continue to be associated with libertarianism after they read the first >>installment (14 pages). This news item is not an attempt to start discussion >>but a plea to lovers of liberty to do some serious thinking about lending any >>support to libertarianism. If you are interested in seeing a copy of >>Schwartz's article, you might try a local Objectivism club. >> >>Bob Stubblefield 201-949-2846 hound!rwsh > >Wow! You really "blasted" us with that one, Bob! > >Why not whet our appetites with a few choice "searing and devastating >indictments?" >Michael M. Sykora Michael, I am sorry my note left you hungry for more, but not hungry enough to order a copy of The Intellectual Activist. The thesis of Peter Schwartz's article is that libertarianism is dangerous to liberty. He makes his case in theory and illustrates how its becoming true in practice. The theoretical point is that a defense of liberty requires a defense of the ideas of reality, reason, and self-interest but that libertarianism holds liberty compatible with these and with their opposites. When rational ideas are compromised with irrational ones the result is irrational. The practical point is that the libertarian movement will be co-opted by by enemies of liberty. There are already examples in the 1984 platform. The libertarian intellectuals who hold that the US is a bigger enemy of liberty than is the USSR show where the movement is going. The moral of the story is to know the fundamentals on which liberty is based and refuse to compromise them. Again, I'm not trying to start a discussion. Send Peter Schwartz $5.00 at the address given below for the Intellectual Activist and ask for Volume III, Numbers 19 and 20. Bob Stubblefield ihnp4!hound!rwsh 201-949-2846 SOURCES OF INFORMATION THAT MAY BE OF INTEREST TO THOSE INTERESTED IN AYN RAND'S PHILOSOPHY OF OBJECTIVISM The first listings are of activities sanctioned by Leonard Peikoff, who was designated by Ayn Rand as her intellectual heir (i.e., they are not likely to misrepresent Objectivism): General Information about Objectivism Objectivism Box 177 Murray Hill Station New York NY 10157 Philosophical Journal, $20/year US and Canada The Objectivist Forum TOF Publications, Inc. PO Box 5311 FDR Station New York NY 10150 Taped lecture course rental Walter Huebscher PO Box 957 Thornhill, Ontario Canada L3T 4A5 Tapes, Books, Art Reprints Palo Alto Book Service 200 California Ave Palo Alto, CA 94306 415-327-7781 Tapes, Books, Art Reprints Second Renaissance Book Service 8608 Old Dominion Court Indianapolis IN 46231 Newsletter, $44/20 issues US and Canada, $64 elsewhere, past issues $2.50 each The Intellectual Activist 131 Fifth Avenue, Suite 101 New York NY 10003 Educational Organization The Ayn Rand Institute 13101 Washington Blvd Suite 222 Los Angeles, CA 90066 213-306-9232 Summer Conference, 7/28-8/11 '85, U of C San Diego $525/person $950/couple Jefferson School PO Box 2934 Laguna Hills CA 92654 The following are not officially sanctioned by Leonard Peikoff but are, in my opinion, of interest to objectivists: Newsletter, $38/26 issues On Principle Princeton Professional Park 601 Ewing Street, # B-7 Princeton, NJ 08542 College Newspaper, $13.50/10 issues ERGO MIT, W20-443 3 Ames Street Cambridge, MA 02139 617-253-2358 or 617-225-9181 Private High School American Renaissance School 468 Rosedale Avenue White Plains, NY 10605 914-997-1227 Journal of Esthetics Aristos PO Box 1105 Radio City Station New York, NY 10101 Newsletter, $22/12 issues Access to Energy Box 2298 Boulder, Colorado 80306 Access to Energy
fagin@ucbvax.ARPA (Barry Steven Fagin) (05/30/85)
Bob Stubblefield writes: >The libertarian intellectuals who hold that the US is a bigger enemy of >liberty than is the USSR show where the movement is going. To my knowledge, *no* libertarian intellectuals hold that the US is a greater enemy of liberty than the USSR. >The moral >of the story is to know the fundamentals on which liberty is based and >refuse to compromise them. I couldn't agree more, and I'm an ardent libertarian. I have *GOT* to read this article of Bob's. --Barry -- Barry Fagin @ University of California, Berkeley
mms1646@acf4.UUCP (Michael M. Sykora) (06/01/85)
>/* rwsh@hound.UUCP (R.STUBBLEFIELD) / 11:47 pm May 28, 1985 */ > . . . The thesis of Peter Schwartz's >article is that libertarianism is dangerous to liberty. He makes his >case in theory and illustrates how its becoming true in practice. The >theoretical point is that a defense of liberty requires a defense of the >ideas of reality, reason, and self-interest but that libertarianism holds >liberty compatible with these and with their opposites. When rational >ideas are compromised with irrational ones the result is irrational. I don't see libertarianism as saying anything other than -- the initiation of force and fraud is wrong. That's basically it. I don't see any irrationality there. > The >practical point is that the libertarian movement will be co-opted by >by enemies of liberty. I don't see how. In any event, I don't see why one should stop pursuing liberty simply because of this possibility. > There are already examples in the 1984 platform. First of all, I think we'd better clear up who we're talking about. I understood you to be referring to libertarians, who are not necessarily Libertarians. Furthermore, while I don't agree with everything the party says, it is so much better than anything else in the political arena it seems foolish to me not to support it. >The libertarian intellectuals who hold that the US is a bigger enemy of >liberty than is the USSR show where the movement is going. I don't know of any libertarians who hold those views and I read a good deal of libertarian literature. Whom are you referring to? >The following are not officially sanctioned by Leonard Peikoff >but are, in my opinion, of interest to objectivists: Are you sure it's ok to read them without His approval? Anyway, thanks for the info. I7ll be sure to pich up a copy when I get the chance. Mike Sykora