[net.politics] Affirmative Action/Discrimination

vip@philabs.UUCP (V. I. P.) (06/03/85)

Just a suggestion, to solve all the problems with the idea of 
Affirmative Action.  This is intended to be presented mainly
rhetorically...

Recently, a special Congressional Committee decided that all
Japanese interned during the second world war should be
compensated monetarily for their internment.  I would
suggest a similar solution to the Affirmative action
debate.

Simply, figure out the dollar amount owed the
survivors/decendants of forced labor (slavery), and make
payment.  Let's call it compensation for wages deferred.
That along with the Civil Rights Amendment making it illegal
to discriminate in the future (actually, from '64 on) will
even the score.  The affect?  Complete elimination of the
Affirmative Action debate.  No more wimpering from the
liberals about inequities, no more bitching and moaning from
privileged classes about reverse discrimination (which I
don't really believe can exist).

Blacks will then take that money and invest it or do
whatever else they wish with it and in 20 years, or however
long, if there are still poor blacks we can say that they
had their opportunity, etc. to do whatever they wanted.  Now
if course this is an expensive solution, compensating one
person for the wages withheld from perhaps several
generations of his anscestors, but it is a final solution to
the Affirmative Action problem.

					Brian Day

mms1646@acf4.UUCP (Michael M. Sykora) (06/04/85)

>/* vip@philabs.UUCP (V. I. P.) / 11:22 am  Jun  3, 1985 */

>Simply, figure out the dollar amount owed the
>survivors/decendants of forced labor (slavery), and make
>payment.  Let's call it compensation for wages deferred.

That sounds great, as long as you extract payment from those who did the
forcing, or their estates, or from those to whom their wealth was transferred.
Don't forget about discounting for future value!

>. . . no more bitching and moaning from
>privileged classes about reverse discrimination (which I
>don't really believe can exist).

Are you arguing that the phrase "reverse discrimination" is inappropriate
for describing that which it is used to describe in common usage
(or, for that matter, for describing anything), or are you saying that
it is not possible for an employer to hire a less qualified member of a
minority group instead of a more qualified member of a majority group
(whatever that is) because he/she is a member of a minority group?

>					Brian Day

						Mike Sykora

chrisa@azure.UUCP (Chris Andersen) (06/07/85)

> [...]
> Simply, figure out the dollar amount owed the
> survivors/decendants of forced labor (slavery), and make
> payment.  Let's call it compensation for wages deferred.
> That along with the Civil Rights Amendment making it illegal
> to discriminate in the future (actually, from '64 on) will
> even the score.  The affect?  Complete elimination of the
> Affirmative Action debate.  No more wimpering from the
> liberals about inequities, no more bitching and moaning from
> privileged classes about reverse discrimination (which I
> don't really believe can exist).
>
 
> 					Brian Day

    oh boy, I can just see the disputes arising if this were enacted.  There are
vitually no good records on just *how much* work any particular slave did 
therefore there is no way to calculate just compensation. 

				Chris Andersen

cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) (06/12/85)

> Simply, figure out the dollar amount owed the
> survivors/decendants of forced labor (slavery), and make
> payment.  Let's call it compensation for wages deferred.
> That along with the Civil Rights Amendment making it illegal
> to discriminate in the future (actually, from '64 on) will
> even the score.  The affect?  Complete elimination of the
> Affirmative Action debate.  No more wimpering from the
> liberals about inequities, no more bitching and moaning from
> privileged classes about reverse discrimination (which I
> don't really believe can exist).
> 
> 
> 					Brian Day

What a fascinating solution.  There are a few problems, though.
What is the value of the slave's labor?  Should we deduct the room
& board?  If we did, there might not be much left.  You may recall
Adam Smith's remarks in _The_ _Wealth_ _Of_ _Nations_:

        Whatever labor the slave provides above and beyond his
        subsistence must be beaten out of him.
        
Adam Smith was observing that slave labor was an economically
inefficient system.  More recently, Thomas Sowell's book _Markets_
_And_ _Minorities_ pointed out that the areas of the South that were
the most involved with slavery were the poorest under slavery, and
remain very poor today.  He asserts that the tremendous costs 
associated with preserving slavery (which required substantial
governmental assistance) impoverished the society as a whole.
Slavery, for the most part, satisfied a need for dominance much
more than economic need, and only because the governments of the
South (and after 1850, the North) redistributed wealth to preserve
slavery did it last as long as it did.  (Want a more detailed and
very readable analysis?  Read Sowell's book.)

Should those of us whose families contributed lives and suffering to
end slavery be required to compensate blacks?  Should we try to determine
which whites today are descended from slaveowners?  How will we apportion
compensation to blacks who are part-white?

Sowell's book also contains another interesting point on the issue
of compensation.  If compensation is intended to address the discrepancy
between white and black wealth today, why not make the compensation
based on the difference between black African wealth and the wealth of
black Americans?  Except that then blacks would have to compensate
whites.  Silly?  Of course.  So is this whole idea of compensating D
at C's expense for crimes committed by A against B.