jefff@cadovax.UUCP (Jeffery H. Fields) (06/24/85)
It seems that the reaction of the average citizen of the USA to the
abduction of American citizens aboard TWA Flight 847 is one of
self-righteous indignation. I must say that the actions of the
Shiite terrorists cannot be condoned and that my heart goes out to
the unfortunate Americans who are being held captive. But it
angers me to discover the most Americans could give a flying fig
for trying to understand why our people were taken hostage. Our
track record in regards to the Middle East sadly lacks humanitarian
regard and basic respect for the persons of the Islamic faith.
I know a Lebanese family (named Kadri) and can understand the
Shiite reaction. The Lebanese family I know is Sunni so their
experiences are somewhat different than those of the Shiites, but
not significantly different. They were lucky enough to have not
directly experienced the wonton Israeli invasion of Lebanon in
1982. I remember watching the news in their living room. The
images of American-made Israeli tanks rolling through Beirut had a
very visible effect on the Kadri's. Abdul almost smashed the TV
set when an Israeli spokesman announced plans to rid Lebanon of the
Palestinian terrorists by military occupation. His sister Jamaal
had a boyfriend who had been murdered by two of Bashir Gemayel's
hit men. Bashir Gemayel, a Maronite Christian supported by the US,
was murdered by Shiite terrorists days after being elected as
president of Lebanon. When I was more naive I asked the Kadri's
how terrible it was that their president was assasinated. Jamaal
said she was mad because "the bastard didn't suffer longer".
The US gives $7,000,000 per day in economic aid to Israel. More
than half of this aid is used to purchase US made arms and
munitions. The US is morally accountable for the deaths of
thousands of Lebanese. The President has a moral obligation to
demand that human rights be observed by the Israelis. So far what
few demands have been made in this regard have been scoffed at by
Israel. Now Israel scoffs at the Shiite demands to free the Shiite
prisoners captured in Lebanon and imprisoned in Israel as a
violation of the Geneva convention. The Shiites have no one to
turn to. They took the most viable method possible: international
terrorism. This is an indeed sad state of affairs when a people
feels so desperate to obtain help that they have to resort to
terrorism instead of diplomatic means.
I pray that the people of the United States of America will learn
from the hostage situation. I pray the US government heeds the
plight of the Islamic peoples of the Middle East. Most of all I
pray for a day when all the Semitic tribes, which includes the
citizens of all the nations of the Middle East, can live in peace,
harmony, and mutual regard for one another.
--
Jeff Fields
{ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!jefff
Pax vobiscum.cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) (06/26/85)
> > The US gives $7,000,000 per day in economic aid to Israel. More > than half of this aid is used to purchase US made arms and > munitions. The US is morally accountable for the deaths of > thousands of Lebanese. The President has a moral obligation to > demand that human rights be observed by the Israelis. So far what > few demands have been made in this regard have been scoffed at by > Israel. Now Israel scoffs at the Shiite demands to free the Shiite > prisoners captured in Lebanon and imprisoned in Israel as a > violation of the Geneva convention. The Shiites have no one to > turn to. They took the most viable method possible: international > terrorism. This is an indeed sad state of affairs when a people > feels so desperate to obtain help that they have to resort to > terrorism instead of diplomatic means. > The reaction of the terrorists is more than immoral, it's dumb: Israel was planning to release the Shiite hostages it holds shortly anyway. Taking hostages just slows the process down. > > Jeff Fields > {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!jefff >
mms1646@acf4.UUCP (Michael M. Sykora) (06/28/85)
>/* jefff@cadovax.UUCP (Jeffery H. Fields) / 10:47 am Jun 24, 1985 */ >I remember watching the news in their living room. The >images of American-made Israeli tanks rolling through Beirut had a >very visible effect on the Kadri's. What was the effect on the Kadri's of the Lebanese Civil War and the abuses of the PLO? Mike Sykora
raghu@rlgvax.UUCP (Raghu Raghunathan) (06/28/85)
> > Our > track record in regards to the Middle East sadly lacks humanitarian > regard and basic respect for the persons of the Islamic faith. > I agree with the basic thrust of your message. I have quite a few Lebanese friends too. And from what I hear and read, the U.S. and Isreal are particularly insensitive to the needs of the Palestanians and other Moslems in the Middle East. > The US gives $7,000,000 per day in economic aid to Israel. More > than half of this aid is used to purchase US made arms and > munitions. The US is morally accountable for the deaths of > thousands of Lebanese. The President has a moral obligation to > demand that human rights be observed by the Israelis. The U.S. literally supports the economy and the armed forces of Israel with it's generous aid. I am not surprised that the Middle East nations have nothing but hatred for the U.S. They see Isreal as the terrorist arm of the U.S., financed and supported by it. I can't help feeling that in many ways the U.S. is the second biggest terrorist organization in the world (next only to USSR). I hope the American people and the administration realize soon that they are being extremely prejudiced and unfair in their treatment of the Middle East countries. - Raghu.
mms1646@acf4.UUCP (Michael M. Sykora) (06/29/85)
>/* raghu@rlgvax.UUCP (Raghu Raghunathan) / 10:44 pm Jun 27, 1985 */ > The U.S. literally supports the economy and the armed forces of > Israel with it's generous aid. I am not surprised that the Middle > East nations have nothing but hatred for the U.S. They see Isreal > as the terrorist arm of the U.S., financed and supported by it. > I can't help feeling that in many ways the U.S. is the second > biggest terrorist organization in the world (next only to USSR). The recent war in Lebanon was the first time Israel has been perhaps reasonably criticized for using force in an action that was not purely defensive. The hatred had been around a long time before the invasion of Lebanon. As for the economic aid, this is no reason for the Arab nations to hate the U.S. What concern is it of theirs (needless to say, these governments have enough problems at home to worry about). By proclaiming the U.S. to be a terrorist organization because it supports Israel, you undermine any merit your argument may have. If you "can't help feeling" this way, perhaps you should see a psychiatrist. > - Raghu. Mike Sykora
tan@ihlpg.UUCP (Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL) (07/01/85)
> The U.S. literally supports the economy and the armed forces of > Israel with it's generous aid. I am not surprised that the Middle > East nations have nothing but hatred for the U.S. They see Isreal > as the terrorist arm of the U.S., financed and supported by it. > I can't help feeling that in many ways the U.S. is the second > biggest terrorist organization in the world (next only to USSR). > > I hope the American people and the administration realize soon that > they are being extremely prejudiced and unfair in their treatment > of the Middle East countries. > - Raghu. For your information, the United States has friendly relations with Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, North Yemen, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Bahrein, Sudan, Somalia, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, and Mauretania. Even relations with Syria aren't all that bad. What Middle Eastern nations are you referring to? Only Libya's Kaddafi (a lunatic) and Soviet satellite South Yemen, of all Arab countries, hate the U. S. Most of the hatred of the U. S. in the Mid-East comes from Iran, a non-Arab country which under the Shah had full and friendly diplomatic relations with Israel. Khomeini's anti-Americanism has virtually nothing to do with the existence of Israel, but rather with U. S. support of the Shah and a general reaction against Western "decadence". -- Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL ihnp4!ihlpg!tan
barry@ames.UUCP (Kenn Barry) (07/02/85)
From cadovax!jefff (Jeff Fields): > It seems that the reaction of the average citizen of the USA to the > abduction of American citizens aboard TWA Flight 847 is one of > self-righteous indignation. I must say that the actions of the > Shiite terrorists cannot be condoned and that my heart goes out to > the unfortunate Americans who are being held captive. But it > angers me to discover the most Americans could give a flying fig > for trying to understand why our people were taken hostage. Our > track record in regards to the Middle East sadly lacks humanitarian > regard and basic respect for the persons of the Islamic faith. As long as the Shiites promote their political goals by acts like the hijacking of the TWA flight, I will indeed not give a "flying fig" about their reasons. I doubt they are qualified to teach me anything about "humanitarian regard" or "basic respect". Terrorists are the best argument I know of in favor of the death penalty. - From the Crow's Nest - Kenn Barry NASA-Ames Research Center Moffett Field, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- USENET: {ihnp4,vortex,dual,nsc,hao,hplabs}!ames!barry
reza@ihuxb.UUCP (Reza Taheri) (07/02/85)
> > The U.S. literally supports the economy and the armed forces of > > Israel with it's generous aid. I am not surprised that the Middle > > East nations have nothing but hatred for the U.S. They see Isreal > > [I have edited out the rest of his article. HRT] > > - Raghu. > > For your information, the United States has friendly relations with > Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, North Yemen, Saudi Arabia, > United Arab Emirates, Bahrein, Sudan, Somalia, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, > and Mauretania. Even relations with Syria aren't all that bad. What > Middle Eastern nations are you referring to? Only Libya's > Kaddafi (a lunatic) and Soviet satellite South Yemen, of all Arab countries, > hate the U. S. Most of the hatred of the U. S. in the Mid-East comes from > Iran, a non-Arab country which under the Shah had full and friendly > diplomatic relations with Israel. Khomeini's anti-Americanism has virtually > nothing to do with the existence of Israel, but rather with U. S. support > of the Shah and a general reaction against Western "decadence". > -- > Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL ihnp4!ihlpg!tan Raghu is absolutely right, so is Bill. Well, OK, so are you. All of the countries Bill recounts ARE close friends of the US. But most of them (officially) consider Israel their greatest enemy. This contradiction might have come to being because what a country has to give in return to US military aid is less than that in return to the Soviet military aid. So it may pay off to befriend you enemy's benefactor if that's the least committing way to get weapons to fight that enemy. It is also beneficial for the US to be friends to, and supply arms to, both, say, Israel and Iraq as it keeps both countries in check and lets the US keep a handle on the situation. Furthermore, even though the governments of these countries are friends with the US, their people feel contempt for any country that supports Israel. Bill's problem is that he falls for a government's official line. How could you believe a friendship between Iraq and the US when only two years ago ... Now really! Or take Iran. Of course Khomeini does not admit that his hatred of the US has personal origins. Unlike Bill's interpretation, he (officially) is an enemy of the US because the US is a friend of Iran's enemy, Israel. But then, Israel is one of Iran's major trading partners, supplying them with weapons in a war against Iraq! You never know if two governments are really friends or foes if you simply read their official policies. So let's not fall for the official lines and try and go underneath the surface and look for the people's feelings. Muslim Middle Easterns hate Israel. It is plain and simple as that. Now, whether that's because of the anti-Israeli propaganda in their countries in the past 40 years, or because Muslims and Jews were born to hate each other, or any other reason, it's irrelevant to "this" discussion. Muslim Middle Easterns hate (OK, "dislike"?) Israel and therefore they hate the US even though their governments may have been friendly with the US for less than a decade. H. Reza Taheri ...!ihnp4!ihuxb!reza (312)-979-7473
tan@ihlpg.UUCP (Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL) (07/03/85)
> > > The U.S. literally supports the economy and the armed forces of > > > Israel with it's generous aid. I am not surprised that the Middle > > > East nations have nothing but hatred for the U.S. They see Isreal > > > [I have edited out the rest of his article. HRT] > > > - Raghu. > > > > For your information, the United States has friendly relations with > > Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, North Yemen, Saudi Arabia, > > United Arab Emirates, Bahrein, Sudan, Somalia, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, > > and Mauretania. Even relations with Syria aren't all that bad. What > > Middle Eastern nations are you referring to? Only Libya's > > Kaddafi (a lunatic) and Soviet satellite South Yemen, of all Arab countries, > > hate the U. S. Most of the hatred of the U. S. in the Mid-East comes from > > Iran, a non-Arab country which under the Shah had full and friendly > > diplomatic relations with Israel. Khomeini's anti-Americanism has virtually > > nothing to do with the existence of Israel, but rather with U. S. support > > of the Shah and a general reaction against Western "decadence". > > -- > > Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL ihnp4!ihlpg!tan ----------------------------------- > > Furthermore, even though the governments of these countries are > friends with the US, their people feel contempt for any country that > supports Israel. Bill's problem is that he falls for a government's > official line. How could you believe a friendship between Iraq and > the US when only two years ago ... Now really! > > [Article Edited - BT] > > Muslim Middle Easterns hate (OK, "dislike"?) Israel and > therefore they hate the US even though their governments may have been > friendly with the US for less than a decade. > > H. Reza Taheri > ...!ihnp4!ihuxb!reza > (312)-979-7473 ----------------------------------- Talk about sweeping generalizations! SOME Muslim Middle-Easterners do hate the U. S., but many do not. Of course, the official positions of Arab governments do not necessarily reflect the views of their people. Unfortunately, we will never be able to have a secret ballot to determine the percentages of those who like, dislike, or hate the U. S. It is true that much of the bad feeling in the ARAB world towards the U. S. does stem from U. S. support of Israel. I doubt very much, however, that Khomeini and Iran would stop hating the U. S. if we stopped supporting Israel. I suppose Khomeini hates Iraq (he did even before Iraq invaded Iran) because Iraq supports Israel -) -) -). Khomeini just likes to hate. -- Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL ihnp4!ihlpg!tan
reza@ihuxb.UUCP (Reza Taheri) (07/11/85)
This article in a followup to a series of earlier articles on if and why Muslim Middle-Easterners hate the US. > > Muslim Middle Easterns hate (OK, "dislike"?) Israel and > > therefore they hate the US even though their governments may have been > > friendly with the US for less than a decade. > > > > H. Reza Taheri > Talk about sweeping generalizations! SOME Muslim Middle-Easterners do > hate the U. S., but many do not. I guess I got a little carried away in my explaining how the US support of Israel is responsible for the hatred of the Middle- Easterners towards the US. Obviously, not all Middle-Easterners hate the US, but the US-Israeli relationship is a major reason why many do. > Of course, the official positions > of Arab governments do not necessarily reflect the views of their people. > Unfortunately, we will never be able to have a secret ballot to determine > the percentages of those who like, dislike, or hate the U. S. It is true > that much of the bad feeling in the ARAB world towards the U. S. does > stem from U. S. support of Israel. I doubt very much, however, that > Khomeini and Iran would stop hating the U. S. if we stopped supporting > Israel. I suppose Khomeini hates Iraq (he did even before Iraq invaded > Iran) because Iraq supports Israel -) -) -). Khomeini just likes to hate. My points exactly, as I said in the article you are responding to. I'd say we are in violent agreement. H. Reza Taheri ...!ihnp4!ihuxb!reza (312)-979-7473