berman@ihlpg.UUCP (Andy Berman) (07/22/85)
Bill Tanenbaum writes: >This is at least the second time that some presumably civilized person on >the net has expressed the urge to go out and kill Shiites. Haven't >we learned anything? There is no such thing as collective guilt. Only those >who kill are killers. Only those who bomb are bombers. Enough of this. --------- Bill expresses clear headed thinking with his aborrence of the jingoist slime we've seen on the net lately with regard to Shiites. Not very long ago in this country it was Iranians who were the target. We've got a not so glorious history in dehumanizing nationalities, religions and ethnic groups that we're supposed to hate. In other times, in other places the target is Blacks, Jews, Irish, Palestineans.... Yet presumably anybody with access to the net has a university education of some kind. But apparently that is not sufficient to have an understanding that human beings should not be judged by their race or religion, only by their individual character. Martillo on the net is the master of pseudo-intellectual racist slander with regard to Muslims in particular. His unix node says Harvard! Academic education just isn't the determining factor whether one can immunize oneself against the disease of ethnic jingoism and racial prejudice. But I do take issue with Bill's contention that "only those who kill are killers; only those who bomb are bombers." I fear that is no longer adequate in the complexitities of modern society. How do you ascribe guilt for mass slaughter? Only on those who actually pull the trigger? What about those who gave the orders? What about those who had the power to stop it but didn't? The killing of 4 marines in El Salvador got a tremendous amount of publicity, but the air war against the civilian population of rural El Salvador gets none. We know that a man fired a rifle in the case of the marines, so we know who to blame. But in the second case, where the killing is on a much greater scale, who do we blame? Do we only blame the Salvadoran pilot who drops the bomb? Can we extend it to his officers? To their American advisors? To the policy makers in the US Administration? To we the taxpapers who finance the crime? I don't know where the guilt begins and where it ends. I suspect things are not always clear cut. I have a nagging sense that if the guilt is not collective, then at least the responsibility to do something about the crime is. Andy Berman ihnp4!ihlpg!berman -----------------
ray@rochester.UUCP (Ray Frank) (07/26/85)
> > Bill Tanenbaum writes: > >This is at least the second time that some presumably civilized person on > >the net has expressed the urge to go out and kill Shiites. Haven't > >we learned anything? There is no such thing as collective guilt. Only those > >who kill are killers. Only those who bomb are bombers. Enough of this. > > Andy Berman writes: > Bill expresses clear headed thinking with his aborrence of the jingoist > slime we've seen on the net lately with regard to Shiites. Not very long > ago in this country it was Iranians who were the target. We've got a not > so glorious history in dehumanizing nationalities, religions and ethnic > groups that we're supposed to hate. In other times, in other places > the target is Blacks, Jews, Irish, Palestineans.... > Yet presumably anybody with access to the net has a > university education of some kind. But apparently that > is not sufficient to have an understanding that human beings > should not be judged by their race or religion, only by > their individual character. HYPOCRITE !!! Above you write that human beings should be judged only by their individual character yet above you say 'in this country we do this and in this country we do that.' Practice what you preach and don't collectively judge and condem everyone in the U.S. Or doesn't your moral code apply to America? University education: Oxymoron perhaps? Net intelligence: Oxymoron for sure? Gee, talk about your collective badmouthing. Sorry, but I just couldn't resist.