cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) (08/06/85)
Why do I have a hard time taking seriously the various commemorative actions associated with the 40th anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima? Because there seems to be a sudden amnesia on the part of the Left about the other atrocities against civilian populations during World War II. Who painted shadows on the sidewalks of the world's cities to commemorate the dead of Dresden? Who castigates the bombing of civilian areas in London and Berlin? Where is the righteous indignation directed at Japan for the atrocities committed against the people of Manilla in 1944? All of these actions are just as morally indefensible as the bombing of Hiroshima; all of these actions involve similar levels of death and terror; but because the United States can't be blamed for them, these other actions have been forgotten. When will I take the various disarmament and anti-nuclear groups seriously? When they demonstrate a concern for all atrocities, not just those of the United States.
myers@uwmacc.UUCP (Latitudinarian Lobster) (08/12/85)
> > When will I take the various disarmament and anti-nuclear groups seriously? > When they demonstrate a concern for all atrocities, not just those of the > United States. Hiroshima / Nagasaki was a special kind of atrocity...the point of all the hoopla is to try to prevent similar occurences in the future. Why don't you stop whining about how special interest groups don't try to do everything but wash your kitchen sink and write your congressperson? You could maybe complain about renewed production of chemical weapons or something. (Note: Much of the debate at the recent END (European Nuclear Disarmament) meeting in Amsterdam was inspired by what is seen as a shift by both Eastern and Western European groups to assessing blame for the arms race to both major powers.) -- Jeff Myers The views above may or may not University of Wisconsin-Madison reflect the views of any other Madison Academic Computing Center person or group at UW-Madison. ARPA: uwmacc!myers@wisc-rsch.ARPA UUCP: ..!{harvard,ucbvax,allegra,heurikon,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!myers BitNet: MYERS at MACCWISC
todd@SCIRTP.UUCP (Todd Jones) (08/12/85)
> When will I take the various disarmament and anti-nuclear groups seriously? > When they demonstrate a concern for all atrocities, not just those of the > United States. You're missing the point entirely. None of the anti-nuclear groups I am familiar with think conventional bombing is somehow more defensible. The point I think needs to be made is that the destructive power of nuclear weaponry is being grossly underestimated by your average American. Many Americans seem to think of nuclear war in the same light as conventional war. As bad as conventional war is, nuclear war is the only form (to date) capable of causing the mass extinction of vast numbers of species, including homo sapiens. Since no living American has experienced an invasion of America, we cannot expect them to fully comprehend the repercussions of war in Main Street, USA. While I don't claim to know the extent of those repercussions, I am sure any attack on America (which if non-nuclear at first, would quickly turn nuclear) would destroy the lives of millions. I don't single America out as an evil world power. I think the frightening spectre of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings should serve as miniature-scale reminders of what is possible. I personally believe that the U.S. could have achieved the same political end by having a "fireworks display" of a nuke or two offshore, but I realize that under the circumstances, options were cloudy at best. Let's remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It may be the only hope for avoiding the big-time boom-boom. -todd jones
rastaman@ihdev.UUCP (Floyd Hydrozoan) (08/13/85)
In article <1392@uwmacc.UUCP> myers@uwmacc.UUCP (Latitudinarian Lobster) writes: > >Hiroshima / Nagasaki was a special kind of atrocity...the point of all the Atrocity, your mother! What about the Bataan Death March? What about what the Imperial Army did to the population of Manilla? What about Dept 871(?) in occupied China where POW's were injected with viral agents, frozen to death to test tolerance to cold, and put in fields which were then bombed with nerve gas and biological agents? Auschwitz wasn't the only playground for the Axis. Hey, I *like* Japanese culture, food, and people. And I'll buy a Japanese car before I'll ever buy an American junkmobile. But Imperial Japan got what she had coming to her. Ooooh, Mommy! War is sooooo bad I'm gwanna cry! (Oh if you want references, see the "Chicago Tribune" for Aug 12th, 1985.) Cheers! ihnp4!ihdev!rastaman
phl@drusd.UUCP (LavettePH) (08/13/85)
I'm with you,Floyd. Nobody commemorates the 100,000+ Filipino civilians who died forty years ago in Manila when the Japanese turned it into a battleground rather that declare it an open city as MacArthur did in 1942. As I recall it, we only had two regrets at the time: 1. The bomb wasn't ready in time to use it on Berlin. 2. We didn't have enough of them to take Japan off of the map. - Phil
riddle@im4u.UUCP (08/14/85)
>> Hey, I *like* Japanese culture, food, and people. And I'll buy a Japanese >> car before I'll ever buy an American junkmobile. But Imperial Japan got >> what she had coming to her. Maybe "Imperial Japan" got its just desserts, but were the tens of thousands of civilians killed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki really "Imperial Japan"? I don't think so. Whether or not you believe that our actions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were necessary to end the war, if you care about human life and human suffering then you must agree that they were deeply tragic. Any act of war, no matter how defensive in nature, is a cause for sorrow. When are we ever going to learn that war itself is the real enemy? --- Prentiss Riddle ("Aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada.") --- {ihnp4,harvard,seismo,gatech}!ut-sally!riddle riddle@ut-sally.UUCP --- riddle@ut-sally.ARPA, riddle%zotz@ut-sally, riddle%im4u@ut-sally
ray@rochester.UUCP (Ray Frank) (08/14/85)
> > In article <1392@uwmacc.UUCP> myers@uwmacc.UUCP (Latitudinarian Lobster) writes: > > > >Hiroshima / Nagasaki was a special kind of atrocity...the point of all the > There was a wonderful article in the paper the other day. It went on to describe what Americans are constantly being forced fed this time of year every year. THE BOMB. It has created in America a form of BOMB GUILT. Remembering the bomb is good, hopefully no one on planet earth will ever have to relive history. But I believe BOMB GUILT is bad. In the article it pointed out that if a person from another planet arrived here this time of year, all he would know about the fourties and the war is the bomb. This country America dropped those horrible bombs on some other country named Japan. He would have a total lack of perspective if all knew was what he read and heard in the media. He might not even know about the 50 to 100 millionother deaths during that time period as a direct result of Japan and Germany's determined attempt to take over planet earth and enslave its population. He would not know what role the Alies played in preventing this atrocious scheme. I wonder if a lot of young people are losing their perspective. After they are relatively new arrivals on planet earth, and the fourties must seem like light years in the past. Oh well just a thought.