[net.politics] Posse Comitatus

tdh@frog.UUCP (T. Dave Hudson) (08/15/85)

> From: oaf@mit-vax.UUCP (Oded Feingold)
> Message-ID: <593@mit-vax.UUCP>

> These  are  the  farmers,  unemployed
> manufacturing workers, Vietnam Vets unsuccessfully  reintegrated  into
> American  society,  bikers  who  never grew up, prudish and ultimately
> dissatisfied mothers, and other marginal types  who  join  KKK,  Posse
> Comitatus  and  similar  organizations.   Their lives are dominated by
> disappointment, fear and hatred,

> The  federal  government  already  identifies  Posse  Comitatus  as  a
> terrorist organization, and the KKK has been known as one for  a  long
> time.   [I  don't  know whether they enjoy the official designation at
> present.  Probably not, since they're so fragmented.]

As it was explained to me, "posse comitatus" is not an
organization, but rather a common law concept that results
in temporary organizations.  That is allegedly the reason
that "posse comitatus" cannot be declared illegal.

"Posse comitatus", I was told, is the power of the people to
arrest a government official who has been violating the law.
(Webster's dictionary does not offer much of an explanation.)

The reason that I became curious about it is that when Gordon
Kahl (sp?) was murdered, I heard a greatly different story
through the grapevine than through the news.  But the clincher
was WEEI's moronic self-contradictory repetition of the
propaganda against the p.c. Kahl had been in (I remember the
gist of it; it was hilarious.):  The posse comitatus is a
neo-nazi extremist organization bent on anarchy.

Nazism, a variant of Fascism, an extreme (in the sense
that it rarely gets so virulent) form of socialism, is
about as opposed to anarchism as you can get.  Where the
anarchists wrongly oppose the elimination of government, the
Nazis wrongly advocated thorough intrusion of government
into anything, without limit in principle.  And, just as
strangely, fascism has been the dominant political force in
this country since about the time of Hoover; it hardly is
extreme in the sense of relative location on a left-right
political spectrum.

The story I heard was partly inaccurate, or at least was
contradicted by later, more assured information.  But it
never denied that Kahl was considered a troublemaker, was
attacked without warning for it at a roadblock, was not a
Nazi, and took a police cruiser in an attempt to escape.  I
have had some personal experience with bullying police
incompetence, and so has an old acquaintance of mine whom I
trust, and several others with whom I've spoken.  What was
transpired to me does not surprise me.  But one thing was
clear.  The news dolts were least to be trusted.

				David Hudson

baba@spar.UUCP (Baba ROM DOS) (08/18/85)

> > The  federal  government  already  identifies  Posse  Comitatus  as  a
> > terrorist organization, and the KKK has been known as one for  a  long
> > time.   [I  don't  know whether they enjoy the official designation at
> > present.  Probably not, since they're so fragmented.]
> 
> As it was explained to me, "posse comitatus" is not an
> organization, but rather a common law concept that results
> in temporary organizations.  That is allegedly the reason
> that "posse comitatus" cannot be declared illegal.

Has it occurred to you that a group of people could name a criminal
organization after a common-law concept?  I mean, "international
business machines" is not an organization, but the class of business
machines that cross national boundries, right?  It may be that a 
terrorist Posse Comitatus does not exist, but the derivation of the 
name is hardly a proof one way or the other.

>                                               But the clincher
> was WEEI's moronic self-contradictory repetition of the
> propaganda against the p.c. Kahl had been in (I remember the
> gist of it; it was hilarious.):  The posse comitatus is a
> neo-nazi extremist organization bent on anarchy.
> 
> Nazism, a variant of Fascism, an extreme (in the sense
> that it rarely gets so virulent) form of socialism, is
> about as opposed to anarchism as you can get.
>
> 				David Hudson

Right-wing terrorist groups in Italy and elsewhere have for years
conducted their attacks on civil order, with the stated intention
of discrediting the ability of democratic institutions to maintain
order and causing popular demand for a police state.  I have no
reason to believe that the mythic Posse Comitatus operates on such
a basis, but "fascists bent on anarchy" is not the oxymoron that you 
hold it to be.

						Baba