dlo@drutx.UUCP (OlsonDL) (08/02/85)
> = Charles Forsythe >> = Me >>My complaint is with people who performed the following scenario on an >>international scale: (As far as I know, the following did not happen, but >>just suppose it did for a moment.) After the attack, this man is hurting, >>scared, wondering, "Why me"? Person X sees him and rather than trying to >>soothe his wounds, instead decides that he must be guilty of something to >>cause his attacker to beat on him. Otherwise, why the attack? So X reads >>off a list of greivances that X thinks someone *like* him did to someone >>*like* his attacker. He protests. X then tells him that even if he didn't >>cause those greivances, he was obliged to fix them. That in any case, he >>is responsible, and therefore deserving of everything he got. >> >>Again I say, NONSENSE! >I have to agree with your point, but I don't see that connection to the >discussion. If the attacker came out and said,"I hit you because you are >ugly," then perhaps even the "Don Black" solution (a bullet in the head) >would be perfect. But if the attacker came out and said,"You killed my >children you slimy American bastard!" then the bullet-in-the-head >response would be nasty. I don't think there are many El Salvadorians >who dislike the Americans for better reasons than ugliness. Do you know what a model in microcosm is? The discussion started with the TWA 847 hijacking. What does it have to do with the problems of the El Salvadorans (check your spelling)? Was the sailor killed because he killed children? Since he was killed personally, he must have been personally responsible for some problem with the hijackers -- right? >>"To laugh at men of sense is the privilege of fools". -- Jean de la Bruyere >To label who has sense and who is a fool is the privilege of the >arrogant. Ooooo, you really got me with that one. "Oh, the-pain-the-pain-the-pain-the-pain..." -- Dr. Smith aka Jonathan Harris These opinions belong to anyone who wants to claim them. David Olson ..!ihnp4!drutx!dlo
ray@rochester.UUCP (Ray Frank) (08/07/85)
> > >I have to agree with your point, but I don't see that connection to the > >discussion. If the attacker came out and said,"I hit you because you are > >ugly," then perhaps even the "Don Black" solution (a bullet in the head) > >would be perfect. But if the attacker came out and said,"You killed my > >children you slimy American bastard!" then the bullet-in-the-head > >response would be nasty. I don't think there are many El Salvadorians > >who dislike the Americans for better reasons than ugliness. > Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. And often to find something uglier all one has to do is look in the mirror. Ugly is a state of mind and heart. If an El Salvadoran or anyone else hates enough to vent his hostilities at people in a restuarant by killing them then he has become death itself, and has become the very thing he hates. It is one thing to go into battle with a weapon against another with a weapon, but oozing through back streets taking pop shots at unsuspecting, unarmed people is UGLY period. But fear not, that oozer will have no trouble sleeping tonight, we are saved by our rationale from guilt and lunacy. After all, right is on our side, isn't it? Isn't it?
csdf@mit-vax.UUCP (Charles Forsythe) (08/08/85)
In article <46@drutx.UUCP> dlo@drutx.UUCP (OlsonDL) writes: >Was the sailor killed because he killed >children? Since he was killed personally, he must have been personally >responsible for some problem with the hijackers -- right? "Since John Q. Public was drafted and sent to Vietnam, he must have been personally responsible." You can do better than that. Patriotism aside, if somebody criticizes/insults your country, don't take it PERSONALLY. Take offense, if at all, as a citizen of the country. Some self-proclaimed freedom fighter comes up to you (Soviet weapon in hand) and says,"America sucks! Take this! >BANG<." You should feel great! When America sent troops -- uh... advisors -- into his country, you waved your little flag! Good for you! Now you get to DIE for your cause! A lot of people die in political struggles (called wars), but few of them ever really get to feel like martyrs. Now why don't you and Don Black go off and be personally insulted by world politics together. -- Charles Forsythe CSDF@MIT-VAX "I was going to say something really profound, but I forgot what it was." -Rev. Wang Zeep
dlo@drutx.UUCP (OlsonDL) (08/20/85)
From: csdf@mit-vax.UUCP (Charles Forsythe) >Patriotism aside, if somebody criticizes/insults your country, don't >take it PERSONALLY. Take offense, if at all, as a citizen of the >country. When did I ever take it PERSONALLY? >Some self-proclaimed freedom fighter comes up to you (Soviet weapon in >hand) and says,"America sucks! Take this! >>BANG<." You should feel >great! When America sent troops -- uh... advisors -- into his country, >you waved your little flag! Good for you! Now you get to DIE for your >cause! A lot of people die in political struggles (called wars), but few >of them ever really get to feel like martyrs. Oh, give me a break! Suppose I hijack a Russian civilian airliner that has an unarmed Russian sailor on board, tie him up, beat him to a pulp, then kill him. Or -- Suppose I drag people out of hospitals and kill them. Or -- Suppose I plant car bombs in such a way that large numbers of civilians (including children) are maimed and killed. Question: Can I do ANY of those things and still be justifiably be called a fighter of oppression? If you cannot answer "NO", then you are a fool and you didn't even have to laugh! These opinions belong to anyone who wants to claim them. David Olson ..!ihnp4!drutx!dlo "To laugh at men of sense is the privilege of fools". -- Jean de la Bruyere