mahoney@bach.DEC (Be verwy verwy quiet I am hunting wabbits) (09/19/85)
>>Yes, Armstrong, but you do not have to join the Boy Scouts >>nor are you required to sing "God Bless America". >>There's the difference. >>T. C. Wheeler >In my elementary school, we WERE required to sing "patriotic" songs >every day. We were also required to salute the flag. I remember we used sing >one about the Green Berets, and how great is was to be one. If this isn't >militaristic indoctrination, I don't know what is. > >Although my parents found the idea of my joining the cub scouts somewhat >distasteful, they allowed me to do so, since it was considered almost "de >rigeure" for boys my age. Had I not, I would have ended up a social outcast. > >In the USSR, no one is forced to join the Young Pioneers. But those who >don't do so suffer quite a bit of scorn from their peers, as well as >unfavorable offical attitudes as a result. > >Please don't tell me that there is no political indoctrination in our >schools, I lived throught 6 years of it. There is a large difference now compared to a few years ago. Number one it is unconstitutional now to force some one to sing or to say the Pledge of Allegiance. Number Two your future in the US is not wrecked if you donot sing or recite the Pledge of Alliegence and they do not write down in your history refused to join the Cub Scouts. Believe me if you didn't join the Young Pioneers in the Soviet Union you would get more then a few raised eyebrows What you call political indoctrination in the US is a little mote yes they try to say the country is great and so forth but what country doesn't do that. What they do in the Soviet Union and countries in that gendre is to mold the child to think of the state first and for most above family and personal feelings. That seems to happen in the US but it is not express purpose of saying the Pledge of Allegience (Something I usually refused to do) it is just a rminder of what this country is about. Personally I would rather go through our indoctrination rather than some of the other countries. As a disclaimer I don't see the SOviet Union as an evil empire. It is just another Right Wing Dictatorship trying to establish itself as the most powerful nation in the world. I don't agree with our policies toward Nicaragua and think that US should stand trial before the World Court for its arbtrary misuse of power. (that way people still now I am a liberal). Brian Mahoney "I have been told I am bleeding heart Liberal But I still don't see any blood"
nyssa@abnji.UUCP (nyssa of traken) (09/20/85)
>>Yes, Armstrong, but you do not have to join the Boy Scouts >>nor are you required to sing "God Bless America". >>There's the difference. >>T. C. Wheeler I never received the posting by Mr. Wheeler, so my answer has been delayed. First, I prefer to be called "Mr. Armstrong", "Sir", or just "James" over "Armstrong". Where I attended Elementary School the students were never informed that they had on option on singing "God Bless America", or reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. In fact, we were told it is required. How many 6 year olds do you know who would question that? It was amusing in High School listening to a British citizen being told that he had to pledge allegiance to the United States in order to take his classes. (The student did win when the principal realised the folly involved.) I joined Cub and Boy Scouts because they looked to be fun; they were for a while. Only later in life did I realise how they were part of our indoctrination process. I have no qualms about living in the United States, I'm sure it would be preferable to many (all? I haven't seen all) alternatives. Any changes I'd make to the structure of governmant would be minor compared to those suggested by some on the net. (Direct election of the president, for example, or increasing the importance of the house vis a vis the senate.) I do object to those people who are blind to any faults within this country. I also object to those people who view the lives of American citizens above those of anybody else in the world. This country is the most powerful country in the world. With that power comes certain obligations, foremost among these is the obligation to be responsible and even handed in our dealings in the world. I'd like to see us try that. -- James C. Armstrong, Jnr. {ihnp4,cbosgd,akgua}!abnji!nyssa It is a highly directional ultrasonic beam of rock and roll! It kills! -who said it, what story?