bottom@katadn.DEC (09/26/85)
Set def= ignore this posting From the desk of the JERK: I wonder what I did? I participated in an "open" forum, casting *my* opinions to the net. And here is the result instead of flaming me intelligently for my opinion, you suggest that the net should ignore me and I'll go away. Perhaps next you'll attempt to ban DEC from the net as someone did earlier this year. Good work boys. Open forum indeed. As near as I can see I defended a friend of mine from a ridiculous accusation of murder. I felt the posting by oaf@mit-vax.arpa was in poor taste as Samantha Smith's family lives not five miles from where I now sit. Perhaps someone who knows her family also receives this forum. Hey it's ok if you're attacking Don, right? I did not attempt to defend his allegation that the holocaust never occurred, I believe that it did and I'm sorry that it did. There may be some discrepancy in the numbers quoted as I believe that a number of those people were Jehovah's Witness' and/or political prisoners, but at this late date does it really matter? They were *all* people and now they're all dead, or at least the physical part of their horror is over. Punishing the German people on an ongoing basis is not the solution, there is no solution to that problem, it's history. Yeah I was hard on Oded, so what? He accused Don of murder. I believe that his posting was just intended to enrage Don. What better way than to accuse a rabid right winger of being a KGB agent? Ah but now I'm a KGB agent, further indication that these people do not wish to have an open forum they wish to mudsling anyone who does not march to their tune. Go ahead, I've got gore-tex :-) I have also stated that *I* believe that the US's support of Israel is not in the best long term interests of this country. I also believe that Israel showed it's "friendship" to the US when they attempted to sink the USS Liberty. The facts in this case? While gathering electronic intelligence that proved that the Israeli government was lying to us about their troop positions and intentions, we were stripping the Atlantic Fleet of A-4 aircraft to support them. When the state department challenged their statements the Liberty was shot up and 27 American sailors died. Apparently the State department suspected this attack was coming as a message was sent to the Liberty to the effect of "flee for your lives". Unfortunately the message was routed to the Pacific fleet. Did Israel reparate the families of the dead men? Did they reparate the US for damages done to the Liberty? You may correct me if *I'm* wrong but *I* don't think so. But It's not just the Israeli's, I believe that *all* foreign aid in the form of military aid is wrong. I also attacked the greatness of President Kennedy. He still remains the only President in the nuclear age to threaten a nuclear war. I rest my case. Then I post a general statement based on *my* personal experience, granted I did not say it was my personal experience, but it was. So now I hate Catholics, boy don't let my mom hear that. She's a catholic. True I'm not. Once again, so what? The intent of this posting was to disagree with the position that so many "Christians" have, at least the media manipulating ones, which is that they feel they have the right to foster the moral derivatives of their religion on the rest of humanity through censorship, the manipulation of laws to make disagreement with their position illegal, and the manipulation of children through controlled education. I find this to be the most dangerous form of fascism. Reminiscent of the Soviet Union? But that's ok cause brother Jerry says so. I don't hate Catholics, or Christians for that matter. I hate people who wear their religion on their sleeve for all to see and are self righteous about it, the old "my ball is better than yours" types. I challenged people who advocate interference with the government of South Africa to justify it. No answer. I noticed that many of these same people who advocate some form of sanctions against South Africa also found fault with the current administrations other excursions into foreign lands. I asked what's the difference? No answer. I don't believe that past making a moral statement we have any right to interfere with any other government's internal business EVER. Yeah people who make sweeping statements like "I would never serve in the armed forces for any reason" irritate me. They enjoy full benefits as a citizen of this country, built out of other people's sacrifices to get this country to where we are, but they will assume none of the responsibilities for ensuring that that freedom continues to exist. Luckily for all of us there are people who will forgo their own interests to defend our democracy. I am not defending the mistake we made in Southeast Asia, or Korea. Please don't flame me for that. But I ask you who determines when the individual has the right to abstain just because they don't agree? That's the real problem. I personally couldn't live with the thought that *I* draft dodged and someone else got killed in *my* place. Luckily for the people who did dodge the draft, it's very difficult to figure out who went in their place. I don't believe in civil disobedience. It's the same as a child who won't pick up his toys. I believe that if you want something changed you MUST work within the system. That's what this system of government means to me. So go ahead and throw your tantrums. Keep in mind that you undermine the system when you do so. I don't think that the Soviet Union is going to destroy us. We will. We will have so many splinter groups that feel they must control or else that we will sooner or later break down. I think that special interests must be balanced against the common good. That is not happening now. Under republicans we seem to favor big business and rape the environment, under the democrats we seem to favor poor people and rape the middle class. In both cases the rich just get richer while they tell us how they spend our tax dollar. Neither party seems to have a balanced program to solve our problems. The solution? You calm intellectual types tell me. I've been accused of being a radical right winger and a KGB agent. I thought these were somewhat mutually exclusive positions. Maybe I'm not as confused as my detractors. So go ahead censor me by ignoring me. It's ok. I think I'll just watch for a while and see if you great intellects can show me how a real "open" forum works. You don't seem to want an open forum, you seem to want agreement, or barring that mild disagreement. But now that I've been exposed for the spy that I am I guess I'll have to just eat this hollow tooth. Right after Comrade Don and I stick pins in some more airplane models. Going flying anyone? Dave Bottom DEC Augusta Maine !dec-rhea!dec-katadn!bottom "and please remember this is *MY* opinion" set def=unignore