bottom@katadn.DEC (09/16/85)
Anyone who proposes that "christians" have more influence on what is taught in our schools should remember that the Catholics (until the mid 70's) used to beat left handed children and force them to write right handed. Please keep in mind that some of the Rev. Foulwell's associates used electordes attached to seats in their sunday school classes to discipline children. This practice was discontinued after a lawsuit was filed. These are two very good examples of how "rational" and caring our "christian" brothers are. They are also two good examples of why these people should be prevented from exercising their influence on the educational process to the exclusion of other more level headed approaches. Dave Bottom DEC Augusta Maine !dec-rhea!dec-katadn!bottom
gordon@cae780.UUCP (Brian Gordon) (09/19/85)
In article <438@decwrl.UUCP> bottom@katadn.DEC writes: >Anyone who proposes that "christians" have more influence on what is >taught in our schools should remember that the Catholics (until the mid >70's) used to beat left handed children and force them to write right >handed. BULLSHIT. I was going to Catholic schools then, and none of my left-handed peers were being beaten for it. Maybe teachers named Bottom, or red-headed teachers in Maine, or some other identifiable group were doing such things, but to say that all people in a given religion, or teaching in the schools of a given religion were doing it is, in technical terms, BULLSHIT. > They are also two good examples of why these >people should be prevented from exercising their influence on the >educational process to the exclusion of other more level headed >approaches. And your anecdotal reasoning is a good example of why YOU "should be prevented ... " Can you say "prejudice". I thought you could. FROM: Brian G. Gordon, CAE Systems Division of Tektronix, Inc. UUCP: tektronix!teklds!cae780!gordon {ihnp4, decvax!decwrl}!amdcad!cae780!gordon {nsc, hplabs, resonex, qubix, leadsv}!cae780!gordon
horst@leadsv.UUCP (John Selhorst) (09/19/85)
In article <1356@cae780.UUCP>, gordon@cae780.UUCP (Brian Gordon) writes: > In article <438@decwrl.UUCP> bottom@katadn.DEC writes: > >Anyone who proposes that "christians" have more influence on what is > >taught in our schools should remember that the Catholics (until the mid > >70's) used to beat left handed children and force them to write right > >handed. > BULLSHIT. I was going to Catholic schools then, and none of my left-handed > peers were being beaten for it. Maybe teachers named Bottom, or red-headed > > And your anecdotal reasoning is a good example of why YOU "should be > prevented ... " Now, now! I'm sure what bottom meant by mid 70's was 1870's. That was such a bad time. Seriously, I myself was a Catholic Left-Hander taught to write in the 60's (1960's) and I saw no evidence of conscious effort to discourage left-handed writing. However, there are some blatantly discriminatory practices of western culture that are anti-left. Specifically, the writing from left to right. I have noticed that left-handers usually have a dirtier writing hand, picked up from wet ink, than right-handers. It seems awfully dumb to have the hand following the pen across the paper. What a mess. It's also very hard to read what you have written. No wonder I'm screwed up... Boy did I get off the track. The point I was trying to make was that a little exageration does necessarily warrant a flame to the net. I like reading net.flame. There are often some captivating arguments in this newsgroup. Unfortunately, it is one of the more heavily used groups. If we could reduce some of the traffic in this group I am sure that I plus at least one other person would be pleased. So come on troops, do as I say, for my own good. Please, send any responses on this subject directly to me unless you have something important to say. And try not to be so righteous in the future. Love, Johnny {(ucbvax!dual!sun) (ihnp4!qubix)}!sunncal!leadsv!horst {{allegra ihnp4 dual}!fortune decvax!decwrl}!amdcad!cae780!leadsv!horst
debray@sbcs.UUCP (Saumya Debray) (09/25/85)
Dave Bottom (dec-katadn!bottom): > Anyone who proposes that "christians" have more influence on what is > taught in our schools should remember that the Catholics (until the mid > 70's) used to beat left handed children and force them to write right > handed. By the phrase "the Catholics" do you mean "all Catholics" (in which case I must question your perception of reality), or are you just getting carried away by your rhetoric? > These are two very good examples of how "rational" and caring our > "christian" brothers are. They are also two good examples of why these > people should be prevented from exercising their influence on the > educational process to the exclusion of other more level headed > approaches. Oh, be reasonable! I'm a secular humanist myself, but some of the most admirable and selfless people I've known have been Christian missionaries. While I find most of the tenets of fundamentalist religion (be it Christianity, a la Falwell, or Islam, a la Khomeini) deeply disturbing, I can't see how you can possibly generalize this to apply to _all_ Christians. Don't you think you're being a little bigoted about your secular humanism? No, I'm not saying that creationism should be taught in schools instead of evolution. I'm not saying that we should give in to the demands of fundamentalists. What I _am_ saying is that, if you have reasons to oppose specific ideas and actions (of any group), then give your views in a reasonable debate. Uncalled-for generalizations and name-calling serve no useful purpose. -- Saumya Debray SUNY at Stony Brook uucp: {allegra, hocsd, philabs, ogcvax} !sbcs!debray arpa: debray%suny-sb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa CSNet: debray@sbcs.csnet
cheryl@lasspvax.UUCP (Cheryl Stewart) (10/02/85)
The indoctrination at the sunday-school level is sickening & insidious.
As a child, I attended protestant sunday school where
we learned the following "facts":
1. The Jews killed Jesus (Romans? No, they killed Christians
with lions, right?)
2. Catholics worship idols
This is NOT a foaming-at-the-mouth holy-roller neo-fundamentalist
establishment. It is a very conservative, old, upper-middle class
congregation made up primarily of "educated" people, who just happen
to find it necessary to propagate their bigotry in the guise of religious
education.
Jerry Foolall may be public about his mythconceptions, but at least
it's on television -- so he's got enough rope for his own neck.
Perhaps its a good thing that Mr. Remnant Foosball has such a great
opportunity to speak his "mind". This way, those among us who have
undergone the early poisoning of the subconscious with bigoted "facts"
are challenged to either stand with the Fool and all his folly -- or
against him. It also encourages those who agree with the guy to do
so OPENLY, rather than in hushed-you-don't-want-to-offend-Mrs.-Greenburg-
next-door tones behind Mrs. Greenburg's back. With the fools all
talking so loud, and saying such stupid things, we all know who
they are, don't we? I say let them keep talking. Goad them into
advocating clearly un-American activities like curtailing free
speech and freedom of religion. Encourage your friends to laugh
AT them. Let them ban books, then sell banned books real cheap
on the street corner. Their bans are illegal -- unconstitutional
in fact. In order to jail you for selling banned books, they would
have to overthrow the government. AHA! you see? All of those
foosball remnants out there advocate the overthrow of OUR constitutional
government! Those pernicious slime-molds! First they infest
our churches with their bigotry about our fellow Judeo-Christians.
Then they cunningly curry the favor of local and national politicians.
Then they think they can get away with taking away my right to
freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Who do they think
they are, GOD or something? I think that they should confine
their lies and sedition to their own church-schools, for their own
good. Damn radical pseudo-conservative toadies...bob@pedsgd.UUCP (Robert A. Weiler) (10/03/85)
Organization : Perkin-Elmer DSG, Tinton Falls NJ Keywords: In article <570@lasspvax.UUCP> cheryl@lasspvax.UUCP (Cheryl Stewart) writes: >Perhaps its a good thing that Mr. Remnant Foosball has such a great ^^^^^^^^ >opportunity to speak his "mind". This way, those among us who have >undergone the early poisoning of the subconscious with bigoted "facts" >are challenged to either stand with the Fool and all his folly -- or >against him. It also encourages those who agree with the guy to do Ms Stewart; How dare you sully the fine name of the game of Foosball by attaching it to the Reverend Falwell. Everyone knows that this game teaches logic, fair play, sportsmanship and teamwork - all of which Falwell is probably opposed to. Lets be more careful with our plays on words. Bob Weiler PS : read all of this wtih lots of :-)'s PSS : sorry this doesnt have much to do with politics