andrews@ubc-cs.UUCP (Jamie Andrews) (10/16/85)
Subtitle (for can.politics readers): Son Of Intellectual Sleaze
Warning: heavy ad hominem follows
I am not even a net.politics reader, but I have seen Rick McGeer's ravings
on other people's accounts and I can keep SILENT NO LONGER!!
In article <10652@ucbvax.ARPA> mcgeer@ucbvax.UUCP (Rick McGeer) writes:
> ... I lived in British Columbia most of my life, including the
>three years it was under the NDP: BC still hasn't fully recovered from the
>ravages of the Barrett government....
A short course in 70's BC politics. BC was run for many years under a man
named Wacky Bennett. His party was Social Credit (the Socreds for short), a
party founded by one Bible Bill Eberhart. (This is just to give you some idea
of what BC politics is like.) In 1972 the BC voters got fed up with Wacky
and elected an NDP (New Democratic Party) government. These people were pretty
darn incompetent I must admit, not due to their socialism but due to the fact
that none of them had ever seen a government office before.
In 1975, the Socreds got their act together again under the leadership of
Wacky's son Bill. They got what amounted to a coalition government in the
election, due to the defection of many senior people from the middle-of-the-
road Liberal party. Chief among these was a university professor named Pat
McGeer, who during his ten years of university management with Bill Bennett
has presided over the immense loss of prestige and professors from BC's
universities. McGeer and the other Socreds have kept in government lo these
many years, by hounding the brainless BC electorate with the memory of the
failures of the NDP.
Perhaps our own Rick McGeer could comment on his relationship with this
highly-respected politician whom the university students have always greeted
with the warm phrase "Stick it in your ear, McGeer." Certainly his laughable
comments sound very familiar indeed.
> ... I know socialism is dangerous, just as
>an East European knows it's dangerous....
Anyone who thinks the NDP are like East European communists is not
sufficiently in touch with reality to make any coherent comments on the
subject, especially if he has such immense CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
--Jamie.acton@ubc-cs.UUCP (Donald Acton) (10/16/85)
>In article <10652@ucbvax.ARPA> mcgeer@ucbvax.UUCP (Rick McGeer) writes: > ... I lived in British Columbia most of my life, including the >three years it was under the NDP: BC still hasn't fully recovered from the >ravages of the Barrett government.... The NDP (socialists) have been out of power now for over ten years and I find it hard to believe that any of their policies are responsible for the current economic conditions in BC. If any of the NDP's policies are responsible, then the fault lies with the ruling Social Credit Party for failing to modify or eliminate those policies over the past ten years. But what about the glory years in the late 70's and early 80's when the BC economy was booming and everything looked great? Surely those years must have been the result of the previous NDP rule if the problems of today are still their fault. I tend to think not. I subscribe to the theory that at least part of BC's problems are due to the economic conditions of the world as a whole and are not exactly under our control. Unfortunately our problems in BC were exacerbated by a Liberal government under Pierre Trudeau who didn't care about what happened in western Canada. Come to think of it since the NDP are just 'Liberals in a hurry' maybe you are right and we still haven't recovered from NDP rule. :-) Donald Acton
mcgeer@ucbvax.ARPA (Rick McGeer) (10/17/85)
In article <50@ubc-cs.UUCP> andrews@ubc-cs.UUCP (Jamie Andrews) writes: >Subtitle (for can.politics readers): Son Of Intellectual Sleaze I don't often defend my father publically, but calling him an "Intellectual Sleaze" is just too much. The man in question holds *two* doctorates, one in chemistry from Princeton and the other in medicine from UBC. He's also been on the UBC faculty for 28 years. For the last 10 he's been on leave. While on leave, he's published over 100 papers and two books in his research area (neurochemistry). As for sleaze, well, I have never *once* heard *anyone* question his probity in a political career spanning more than two decades. On the other hand, I am hardly equipped to match your expertise on sleaze. >Warning: heavy ad hominem follows > > I am not even a net.politics reader, but I have seen Rick McGeer's ravings >on other people's accounts and I can keep SILENT NO LONGER!! > >In article <10652@ucbvax.ARPA> mcgeer@ucbvax.UUCP (Rick McGeer) writes: >> ... I lived in British Columbia most of my life, including the >>three years it was under the NDP: BC still hasn't fully recovered from the >>ravages of the Barrett government.... > > A short course in 70's BC politics. BC was run for many years under a man >named Wacky Bennett. His party was Social Credit (the Socreds for short), a >party founded by one Bible Bill Eberhart. (This is just to give you some idea >of what BC politics is like.) Clearly you need an education in Western Canadian political history. Wild Bill Aberhart was the founder and leader of the Alberta Socreds, whose affiliation with the BC Socreds was tenuous at best. Indded, it's fascinating to observe that Social Credit found the available political niche in both provinces: in BC, ity became the anti-socialist coalition; in Alberta, it became a right-wing prairie populist movement. >In 1972 the BC voters got fed up with Wacky >and elected an NDP (New Democratic Party) government. These people were pretty >darn incompetent I must admit, not due to their socialism but due to the fact >that none of them had ever seen a government office before. These people once dropped $103 million (then 10% or so of the provincial budget) in a clerical error. They bankrupted BC's second leading industry by imposing ruinous taxes (109% royalties on coal in 1974). They managed to lose $185 million in three years with an auto insurance monopoly. > In 1975, the Socreds got their act together again under the leadership of >Wacky's son Bill. They got what amounted to a coalition government in the >election, due to the defection of many senior people from the middle-of-the- >road Liberal party. Chief among these was a university professor named Pat >McGeer, who during his ten years of university management with Bill Bennett >has presided over the immense loss of prestige and professors from BC's >universities. McGeer and the other Socreds have kept in government lo these >many years, by hounding the brainless BC electorate with the memory of the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >failures of the NDP. I note the immense confidence and trust that you place in the people of the province. With friends like you, Bob Skelly doesn't need enemies. There are more proximate reasons for Social Credit's success at the polls: the boom of the late seventies and early eighties, the emergence of microelectronics as one of BC's leading industries, BC Place...incidentally, if BC's universities are headed for ruin, why is it that high-tech industry is in flower there? For those of you who don't know much about BC, some liberal arts professors have taken early retirement. That's the single grain of truth in this screeching leftist chaff. The effect of such retirements upon the universities is something you must judge: personally, I consider it an enhancement. > Perhaps our own Rick McGeer could comment on his relationship with this >highly-respected politician whom the university students have always greeted >with the warm phrase "Stick it in your ear, McGeer." Certainly his laughable >comments sound very familiar indeed. I am not your own, but I believe that I already have. This information about my ancestry is freely given; I could speculate about yours, but this net is supposed to be devoted to civil discourse. > >> ... I know socialism is dangerous, just as >>an East European knows it's dangerous.... > > Anyone who thinks the NDP are like East European communists is not >sufficiently in touch with reality to make any coherent comments on the >subject, especially if he has such immense CONFLICT OF INTEREST. Perhaps you could define the "conflict of interest" (hint: look it up). However, let it just be said that over 20 of the members of the Barrett government signed the Waffle Manifesto, which declared itself opposed to private property. Barrett, by the way, was one of the signers.
mcgeer@ucbvax.ARPA (Rick McGeer) (10/17/85)
In article <51@ubc-cs.UUCP> acton@ubc-cs.UUCP (Donald Acton) writes: >>In article <10652@ucbvax.ARPA> mcgeer@ucbvax.UUCP (Rick McGeer) writes: >> ... I lived in British Columbia most of my life, including the >>three years it was under the NDP: BC still hasn't fully recovered from the >>ravages of the Barrett government.... > >The NDP (socialists) have been out of power now for over ten years and >I find it hard to believe that any of their policies are responsible for >the current economic conditions in BC. If any of the NDP's policies are >responsible, then the fault lies with the ruling Social Credit Party for >failing to modify or eliminate those policies over the past ten years. >But what about the glory years in the late 70's and early 80's when the >BC economy was booming and everything looked great? Surely those years >must have been the result of the previous NDP rule if the problems >of today are still their fault. I tend to think not. Well, good point. I'd argue that the real problem is that various structural problems the NDP left around (mostly the pro-union Labour Code and an enormous welfare state with strong public-sector unions -- such as the BCMA) left BC unable to compete during a resource bust, and, yes, the Socreds should have cleaned up those things in 1976. > >I subscribe to the theory that at least part of BC's problems are due >to the economic conditions of the world as a whole and are not exactly >under our control. Unfortunately our problems in BC were exacerbated >by a Liberal government under Pierre Trudeau who didn't care about what >happened in western Canada. Come to think of it since the NDP are just >'Liberals in a hurry' maybe you are right and we still haven't recovered >from NDP rule. :-) Damn straight. > > Donald Acton
jimomura@lsuc.UUCP (10/17/85)
Jamie's comments on the Socred/NDP relationship in BC was interesting.
In Ontario, we've got a similar situation wherein the Liberal/NDP 'sort
of coalition' is the 1st non-Tory government since before I was born. It'll
be amazing if they *don't* trip over their own feet. In that sense the
B.C. NDP's have probably taken a bum rap. But then, the point of running
a party in an election is to say to the electorate 'we are ready to
govern'. If you aren't then you should not form a government. Oh, most
mistakes are actually less important than the media would have you believe,
just as the current Tory nepotism probably won't in and of itself hurt
the country, but it would be refreshing to find such an honest self
evaluation of ones abilities.
Cheers! -- Jim O.
--
James Omura, Barrister & Solicitor, Toronto
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