rjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob]) (11/04/85)
We recently have been treated to an interesting situation where a Boy Scout was a candidate for Life Scout (which I think is the rank just below Eagle Scout) and would not affirm a belief in God. He was denied the promotion, although he qualified in every other way. He and his parents protested, the media became involved, tremendous pressure was brought to bear on the Scout Officialdom, and they backed down or wisely changed their dicriminatory policy - depending on where you're coming from. Now let me quote some from my son's Boy Scout Handbook page 492: Duty to God "The men and women who founded our nation held the strong conviction that all men "are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights." When they signed their names to the Declaration of Independence they did this "with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence." But these courageous people recognized also that for these "inalienable rights" and that "protection," they owed certain obligations and duties to the Heavenly Father of us all. You learn what these spiritual duties are in your homes and in your church or synagogue. Your spiritual leader - minister, priest, or rabbi - teaches you how to know God, how to love Him, and how to serve Him. By following these teachings in your daily life, by taking part in the practices of your faith, by using your leadership ability in your religious activities you perform your duty to God. As you do your duty to God remember to be grateful to Him. ... ... ... Show your gratefulness to Him by your deeds as well. ... ... The way to thank God for the abilities He has given you is to develop these abilities to the fullest and make the best possible use of them. All human beings are important in the sight of God because God made us. ... ..." Now clearly the Christian and Jewish God ( at least in some homogenized sense) is being forwarded as the one true "Heavenly Father". As an Evangelical Christian, I regard the statement of faith very bland, of course, but there is a positive sort of religious humanistic message here. In short, I can support the positive teachings. I can fill the gaps "at home and in the church" to suit me. But that is just me....what about the Official Boy Scout position ? Should they rip out page 492, rewrite it more pluralistically ( humanistically), or narrow it more dogmatically ?? Should they stand their ground about what is written on page 492 and damn the financial consequences ? Surely the People for the Amercan Way and the ACLU types won't lose the advantage here to blast the Boy Scouts out of any funding they get from the Federales or United Way or those type organizations on the basis of Separation of Church and State. Bob Brown {...ihnp4!akgua!rjb}
js2j@mhuxt.UUCP (sonntag) (11/05/85)
> We recently have been treated to an interesting situation > where a Boy Scout was a candidate for Life Scout (which I > think is the rank just below Eagle Scout) and would not > affirm a belief in God. He was denied the promotion, > although he qualified in every other way. He and his parents > protested, the media became involved, tremendous pressure was > brought to bear on the Scout Officialdom, and they backed > down or wisely changed their dicriminatory policy - depending > on where you're coming from. Discriminatory policies are discriminatory policies, even when you aren't the discriminatee, Bob. > < quote from Boy Scout Handbook here > > Should they stand their ground about what is written on page 492 and > damn the financial consequences ? Surely the People for the Amercan Way > and the ACLU types won't lose the advantage here to blast the > Boy Scouts out of any funding they get from the Federales or > United Way or those type organizations on the basis of Separation > of Church and State. > > Bob Brown {...ihnp4!akgua!rjb} Long ago, when I was in the boy scouts, I had not yet bothered to seriously examine or question my religious beliefs. But the boy scouts is not about religion. Sure there is some lip service to it ("a scout is courteous, kind, ...., clean, and reverent."), but scouting is mostly about boys getting together and hiking, camping and canoeing, and learning a little about a lot of subjects. Such training is valuable for to any kid, believers and non-believers alike. I'm glad to hear that this discriminatory policy has been changed. And if they hadn't changed it, I'd have been cheering for the ACLU to stop the federal goverment from coercing me into supporting the BSA's discriminatory policies. (if in fact, the BSA do receive public funding.) I just love helping to pay for people to get together and exclude my kind. -- Jeff Sonntag ihnp4!mhuxt!js2j "What would Captain Kirk say?"
tw8023@pyuxii.UUCP (T Wheeler) (11/06/85)
As far as I know, the Boy Scouts do not receive any tax money. Their funds come from private donations and groups such as United Way, et al. A scout is under no obligation to adhere to a religion. They just do not try for the badge associated with that activity. In our troop, religion plays a very minor role with about half the kids not participating at all in religeous activities. It's there for those who are interested. That's all. T. C. Wheeler
mat@mtx5a.UUCP (Mark Terribile) (11/17/85)
>> We recently have been treated to an interesting situation >> where a Boy Scout was a candidate for Life Scout (which I >> think is the rank just below Eagle Scout) and would not >> affirm a belief in God. He was denied the promotion, >> although he qualified in every other way. . . > > Discriminatory policies are discriminatory policies, even when >you aren't the discriminatee, Bob. > >> < quote from Boy Scout Handbook here > > >> Should they stand their ground about what is written on page 492 and >> damn the financial consequences ? Surely the People for the Amercan Way >> and the ACLU types won't lose the advantage here to blast the >> Boy Scouts . . . > . . .. But the boy scouts >is not about religion. Sure there is some lip service to it ("a scout is >courteous, kind, ...., clean, and reverent."), but scouting is mostly >about boys getting together and hiking, camping and canoeing, and >learning a little about a lot of subjects. Such training is valuable >for to any kid, believers and non-believers alike. . . . > And if they hadn't changed it, I'd have been cheering for the ACLU >to stop the federal goverment from coercing me into supporting the >BSA's discriminatory policies. . . >funding.) I just love helping to pay for people to get together and >exclude my kind. >-- >Jeff Sonntag >ihnp4!mhuxt!js2j > "What would Captain Kirk say?" > A bit of history here: Boy Scouting, as conceived and implemented by Sir Robert Stephen Baden-Powell, did NOT specifically involve religion. The early Scouting movement grew widely in popularity; perhaps it was a relief from the traditional British insularity. At any rate, after it had come in for wide attention before anyone realized that religion was being neglected. At this time, religion was a living thing; it was part of people's lives and a vital part of the training of their children. It was not the collection of dusty sermons that apparently inspires Jeff Sonntag to decry it as worthless. Parents, politicians, educators, and clergymen banded together to bring Scouting into this part of life. Scouting (R.S.B-P.) responded by acknowledging the importance of one's relationship with the divine in one's life. ``To do my duty/To God and my country'' acknowledges this: we have the right and the duty to obey a higher authority than any we may set up when we believe that such authority exists. Reverence does not always imply belief in God, nor the converse. One can have a reverence for life, or for nature. Reverence is simply the feeling that there are things which are intrinsically beyond the rightful scope of our actions. Some would deny this; technology makes it easy, as the possible scope of our actions increases we have to aske more questions and take responsibility for more of the answers. Note that ``reverent'' is the last point of the Scout Law. Note also that after more than a decade, this former Scout remembers the whole of the law; he does not really live up to it. A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent. -- from Mole End Mark Terribile (scrape .. dig ) mtx5b!mat ,.. .,, ,,, ..,***_*.