jedi@cuuxb.UUCP (Stephan M. Adams) (11/15/85)
Who are you guys trying to kid. Jerry Falwell is an idiot. I mean the guy really believes that there are still dinosaurs alive in Africa and that the Earth is only 6000 years old. That wouldn't be so bad if he didn't want everyone else to believe it to. Jerry believes in seperation of Church and State, but only for left-wingers. His motto : if you can't convert 'em, legislate what you want. This is very dangerous. What's even more dangerous is that he probably controls in the area of 10 MILLION votes (10,000,000)!!! This is enough of a swing to affect national politics for years to come. ============================================================================== A note about Church and State : The Founding Fathers simply wanted no single State Religeon. They left Europe to avoid that. They meant that America should not persecute anyone for their personal beliefs. This did not mean keeping the two completely apart. The ACLU has blown this way out of proportion. I don't object to having a manger in a public building, nor a menorah, nor any other symbol appropriate for the season. If what the ACLU says is true, why do the Senate & House have chaplains, and why do they open each days busines with an invocation? Why does our money say "In God We Trust"? Why did they write "...all men are created equal and they are endowed by their Creator..."? They were very religous. They just didn't want to be told who or what they could/couldn't worship. Religeon will always play a big part in our lives, therefor it will be a part of our politics. If everybody would give a little, we'd have a lot less problems. ============================================================================== -Steve Adams ihnp4!cuuxb!jedi -- "We begin bombing in five minutes." (Ronald Reagan) Theses views do not reflect the views of my management, employer, friends, relatives, or Opus the Penguin. And sometimes they don't even make sense...
andrews@yale.ARPA (Thomas O. Andrews) (11/19/85)
>A note about Church and State : > >The Founding Fathers simply wanted no single State Religeon. They left >Europe to avoid that. They meant that America should not persecute anyone >for their personal beliefs. This did not mean keeping the two completely >apart. The ACLU has blown this way out of proportion. I don't object to >having a manger in a public building, nor a menorah, nor any other symbol >appropriate for the season. > >If what the ACLU says is true, why do the Senate & House have chaplains, and >why do they open each days busines with an invocation? Why does our money >say "In God We Trust"? Why did they write "...all men are created equal and >they are endowed by their Creator..."? They were very religous. They just >didn't want to be told who or what they could/couldn't worship. > >Religeon will always play a big part in our lives, therefor it will be a part >of our politics. If everybody would give a little, we'd have a lot less >problems. > > > -Steve Adams > ihnp4!cuuxb!jedi The founding fathers didn't truly understand the notion of repression and bigotry. They did not have the advantage of the modern psychological aspects, and the extent of degradation involved in bigotry. After all, many of them believed slavery was a fine idea. We, as a modern society, can see *more* than the founding fathers. As for "endowed by their creator," this phrase occurs in the Dec. of Indep., and thus is not a legal document of any sort. It is a declaration. (Hence the name.) It only proves that those who signed it were religious. This does not indicate any other intention ... I'd be happy if "In God We Trust" was removed from our money, if chaplains would be removed from Congress (unless they are congresspeople, too,) etc. But, in my opinion, these are minor, compared with issues like school prayer. -- Thomas Andrews andrews-thomas@yale
jim@ISM780B.UUCP (11/24/85)
Jefferson, Paine, Franklin, and some of the others were Deists. They held the post-Newton clockwork view of the universe; they believed that God set the clock running and then went off to do other things. They were not Christians! Jefferson believed in Christ's moral message but not his divinity. His phrase "... endowed by their Creator ..." is fairly neutral, not the Lord God or something like that. "In God we trust" was added by some Christian nearly century later. As long as House and Senate members can have access to a chaplain or equivalent regardless of their religion I don't see it as a violation of CvsS. But government agencies paying for public religious displays seems to me a clear violation of the BofR. I get three Christian TV channels all the time, a couple more at night, and it is just about the only thing on on Sunday evening. Plus all the radio stations. I think they can afford to put up their own displays. -- Jim Balter (ima!jim)