nunes@utai.UUCP (Joe Nunes) (11/27/85)
Regarding current talk on concentration camps in Northern Ireland vs. concentration camps in Nazi Germany: There were two types of camps installed in Germany during Nazi rule. Concentration camps, which were basically jails (like I assume the one in Northern Ireland is). And extermination camps, which had the function the name implies. Through time the term "concentration camp" has taken the connotation of both.
squires@csd2.UUCP (Charles S Squires Jr) (12/02/85)
I do not think all jails can be called Concentration Camps. In fact, the concentration camps (now, I'm NOT talking about the death camps) of Nazi germany bore extremely little resemblance to American prisons. The Maze is is very much like an American prison and is not like a Nazi concentration camp. In any case, the crux of the debate is the nature of the people being imprisoned there, how/why they are being held, and how they are treated in their confinement (I think that's a politically neutral statement). I believe that no one has been starved there (rather, people have starved themselves), no one has been executed there, etc. For these reasons, I find it impossible to call the Maze a concentration camp without calling any American prison a concentration camp. In the course of a debate, one should not take too much time out to redefine the language, so let's go on NOT calling American prisons "concentration camps." Maybe we can argue whether or not the Maze holds "political prisoners". I support the internment of these prisoners (as if the British give two hoots about my support), yet I can see why someone would call the Maze a political prison, even though I disagree. I find it ridiculous for people to call the Maze a Concentration Camp. (To bring in a similar tactic... if you persist in calling the Maze a Concentration Camp, I'm going to say "Your comments sound like comments Adolf Hitler would have made."-- See, throwing around inappropriate, heavily slanted terms gets you nowhere). /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Charles Squires, Rm 619 WWH, | ARPA: squires@nyu-csd2.ARPA | | Courant Institute of Mathematical | UUCP: ...cmcl2!csd2!squires | | Sciences, New York University | CSNET: squires@nyu-csd2@csnet-relay | | 251 Mercer St, NY, NY, 10012 | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
tan@ihlpg.UUCP (Bill Tanenbaum) (12/03/85)
> [J. Nunes] > Regarding current talk on concentration camps in Northern Ireland vs. > concentration camps in Nazi Germany: There were two types of camps installed > in Germany during Nazi rule. Concentration camps, which were basically jails > (like I assume the one in Northern Ireland is). And extermination camps, which > had the function the name implies. Through time the term "concentration camp" > has taken the connotation of both. ------- Mr. Nunes is only partially correct. There was a real distinction between the two types of camps in Nazi Germany, but during the war many tens of thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands) of prisoners in CONCENTRATION camps (e. g. Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, etc.) were deliberately worked or starved to death. There is no comparison to Northern Ireland, even if we ignore the EXTERMINATION camps (Auschwitz, Treblinka, Sobibor, Chelmno, Belzec). -- Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL ihnp4!ihlpg!tan
nunes@utai.UUCP (Joe Nunes) (12/05/85)
> > [J. Nunes] > > Regarding current talk on concentration camps in Northern Ireland vs. > > concentration camps in Nazi Germany: There were two types of camps installed > > in Germany during Nazi rule. Concentration camps, which were basically jails > > (like I assume the one in Northern Ireland is). And extermination camps, which > > had the function the name implies. Through time the term "concentration camp" > > has taken the connotation of both. > ------- > Mr. Nunes is only partially correct. There was a real distinction between > the two types of camps in Nazi Germany, but during the war many tens of > thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands) of prisoners in CONCENTRATION > camps (e. g. Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, etc.) were deliberately worked > or starved to death. There is no comparison to Northern Ireland, even if > we ignore the EXTERMINATION camps (Auschwitz, Treblinka, Sobibor, Chelmno, > Belzec). > -- > Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL ihnp4!ihlpg!tan Yes, you are right. Conditions in concentration camps in Nazi Germany were infinitely worse than those in Northern Ireland. I was only trying to point out that the idea behind them was essentially the same (locking away undesirables), and that extermination wasn't a primary function of Nazi *concentration* camps. I was in no way implying that those camps weren't horribly cruel, or alternatively that that cruelty was being duplicated in Northern Ireland. Reading over my posting again I realize that I should have made that point clear.