tonyw@ubvax.UUCP (Tony Wuersch) (12/10/85)
In article <260@gargoyle.UUCP> carnes@gargoyle.UUCP (Richard Carnes) writes: >Racism, then, is not just a disposition to prejudge people by their >color or ethnicity -- it also includes an ideological component (the >supposed innate inferiority of the group, their having smaller >brains, a "backward" culture, etc.) to lend intellectual and moral >respectability to domination. I'd concur with this. Racism depends on power; power relationships are asymmetrical. It's an egalitarian fallacy to apply the same standards to the powerless as to the powerful. Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth, not everyone. >About anti-Semitism: Blacks are looked down on because they are >supposedly inferior, but they are tolerated or even liked as long as >they "stay in their place." Jews are hated because they are >*different*. Jews have a strong group identity and resist >assimilation into the prevailing culture, and this strong and opposed >identity is perceived as a threat by a person whose own sense of >identity and integration is weak and who derives security from having >everyone else think like himself. ... >-- >Richard Carnes, ihnp4!gargoyle!carnes I'll never understand why ego-psychology explanations of social behavior attract people so. Individual psychology is probably *least* important in a long chain of causes, such as politics, power, economics, sexuality, etc.., involved in most social behavior. My theory would go as follows (for Europe, but maybe it could be extended): 1. Jews in Europe were vulnerable. In particular, they were excluded from political decision-making unless their presence could not be avoided. 2. Jews had a cosmopolitan, international identity when states needed to encourage more popular participation by building national myths. So Jewish habits of survival got in the way of state growth. 3. In less developed countries, Jews were self-sufficient and not under bureaucratic authorities (i.e. in Russia and Slavic countries). They fell out of feudal patterns of obligation and protection. And they didn't organize dangerous peasant revolts. 4. In more developed countries, the success of Jews who had never depended on land made declining aristocratic classes look silly. Aristocratic classes managed the transition of many states into nations, esp. in Central and Eastern Europe. They took their bitterness out on Jews by denying Jews membership in the different sets of groups that each state called "part of the nation". That's especially important because many European definitions of citizen are based on the transferral of aristocratic privileges and rights to ethnic and national groups, not on egalitarian definitions of abstract people, mentioned in constitutions (New World). So in much of Europe, esp. Central and Eastern Europe, groups which were not "part of a nation" by the divine hand of history (guided by aristocrats of an earlier period) had no fundamental rights at all. If they had any role, it was well-defined as exploitable. 5. Jews were anti-militaristic (this easily follows from 1-4). In a militaristic age, anti-militarism incurred resentment from the walking wounded of Europe's wars. Tony Wuersch {amd,amdcad}!cae780!ubvax!tonyw
tedrick@ernie.BERKELEY.EDU (Tom Tedrick) (12/12/85)
>5. Jews were anti-militaristic (this easily follows from 1-4). In a > militaristic age, anti-militarism incurred resentment from the > walking wounded of Europe's wars. I suspect this is a myth. I read an attempted refutation of this idea in "Germany without Jews" by Bernt Engelmann, which gives examples of very excellent military achievements by various Jews. Even some German military figures had Jewish blood, including Field Marshall Milch of the Luftwaffe (who was too valuable to lose despite being Jewish), Heydrich himself (who had a Jewish grandparent, and conceived and began the implementation of the "final solution" before being assasinated), and possibly even Hitler (there is a good chance that one of his grandparents was Jewish). Today the Israeli military forces are qualitatively the finest in the world. Let me finish with a story: a close friend of mine happens to be Jewish. Her grandfather served with the Austrian army in WWI. He was wounded and spent a long time in a Russian prisoner of war camp. He was finally released. After Hitler took over, he was put in a concentration camp and killed along with almost all of my friend's relatives.
tonyw@ubvax.UUCP (Tony Wuersch) (12/13/85)
13 Dec 85 01:12:07 GMT Reply-To: tonyw@ubvax.UUCP (Tony Wuersch) Organization: Ungermann-Bass, Inc., Santa Clara, Ca. Lines: 54 Xref: dual net.politics:11344 net.politics.theory:1651 In article <11213@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> tedrick@ernie.UUCP (Tom Tedrick) writes: > >>5. Jews were anti-militaristic (this easily follows from 1-4). In a >> militaristic age, anti-militarism incurred resentment from the >> walking wounded of Europe's wars. > >I suspect this is a myth. I read an attempted refutation of this >idea in "Germany without Jews" by Bernt Engelmann, which gives >examples of very excellent military achievements by various Jews. It's good to point out the difference between public myth and documented fact, as I imagine Engelmann was doing. There's a recent film called *Colonel Redl*, about a ficticious colonel who reached the rank of the Austro-Hungarian general staff. In that story, the Jews in the military were tolerated and also singled out. The only reason they were tolerated seemed to be that the government needed Jewish money. Which *is* documented: the Rothschilds paid for the deficits of the monarchy, and only that saved the Empire from bankruptcy. As a condition for their assistance, the Rothschilds required that governments tolerate and not abuse their Jewish populations. Austria under the Empire was a relatively good place for Jews. Germany was different. See the following. >Even some German military figures had Jewish blood, including >Field Marshall Milch of the Luftwaffe (who was too valuable to >lose despite being Jewish), Heydrich himself (who had a Jewish >grandparent, and conceived and began the implementation of the >"final solution" before being assasinated), and possibly even >Hitler (there is a good chance that one of his grandparents was >Jewish). Unlike in Austria, however, these figures were assimilationist and even Jew-hating. If I were Jewish, I wouldn't take military pride in a killer like Heydrich. Is he described in Engelmann's book? If he is, the book must have been written for Germans, who appreciate those kinds of paradoxes. >Today the Israeli military forces are qualitatively the finest >in the world. A fact to take pride in, of course. (?) >Let me finish with a story: a close friend of mine happens to >be Jewish. Her grandfather served with the Austrian army in >WWI. He was wounded and spent a long time in a Russian prisoner >of war camp. He was finally released. After Hitler took over, >he was put in a concentration camp and killed along with almost >all of my friend's relatives. Tony Wuersch {amd,amdcad}!cae780!ubvax!tonyw