aouriri@ittvax.ATC.ITT.UUCP (Chedley Aouriri) (01/17/86)
[] In reply to Oded Feingold's posting: > > True, Libya may have helped with a little misdirection [passports > lifted from Tunisian spies last summer], but the point of departure was > Lebanon, and the guiding force and source of arms was SYRIA. The lifted passports did not belong to Tunisian spies; they have been confiscated from Tunisian workers in Libya. > So why doesn't the US attack Syria? Two reasons: > Syria is closely allied with the > USSR, and an attack on her can be expected to call down a heavy Soviet > response. You can certainly assert that Israel is closer allied with the USA, than Syria is with the USSR. That's why Syria did not attack Israel. > 2. The Syrians are playing Americans against themselves, So are the Israelis: they scramble their lobbies and the american jewish organizations (which are under their direct control) and major segments of the mass media to denounce and overturn any action taken by the US, if they perceive it as against their short term interest or emotions (Remember Awacs, Bitburg, The memo of understanding,....) And of course, on the other hand, they are right on time every fiscal year to get billions of dollars of never-to-be-repaid loans, grants, military assistance,.... > 4. If you believe Noam Chomsky, Israel WANTS her opponents to be > fanatical terrorists - that buys political leverage for her [genocidal? > theocratic? terroristic? nuclear-crazy? foolish? cute? slave to > American dictates?] policies at home and abroad. Why cut off the flow > of wonderful homicidal maniacs and lose that great source of internal > public acquiescence, that great excuse for American military aid, that > terrific supply of popular sympathy in Europe and among the dirt farmers You do not have to believe anybody to find out what Israel wants. Just look at cold facts: Israel wants to get rid of the palestinians, because it took their homeland to set up its state. Short of exterminating them (some israeli politicians dream loudly about that), Israel decided that there is no palestinian problem. But the rest of the world does not buy it. So, Israel settled to the lesser false equation : Palestinians = PLO = Terrorists. Whenever peace talks start to tackle the palestinian problem, Israel performs a "military surgical strike" against some palestinian camp, triggering reprisal terrorist actions, and derailing the peace process. You can check the chronology of all israeli attacks to confirm this. The latest being the raid on PLO quarters in Tunis, which has been performed at the very moment, almost to the hour_ when King Hussein was visiting Washington, trying to convince the US government of the necessity of including representative palestinians in peace talks with Israel. The result of that raid is well known: reprisal terrorist actions, the Achille Lauro, Abu-el-Abbas, Abu-Nidhal,...and most important to the Israelis, no more talk about peace process, or settlment of the palestinian problem. Since Israel cannot come to terms with the fact that there is a palestinian people who has the inalienable right to live sovereign in its homeland, Israel resorts to all kinds of tricks in the bag and off the bag to deny the existence of the problem. Actually, it is in Israel's own long term interest to settle the palestinian problem and live in peace with its neighbours. Because if in the short term Israel can count on the US support and protection, it is foolish for Israel to count on it forever (ask the south vietnamese!). > The US is going to scream and yell (at Libya -- that's safe: Not at > Syria or the USSR) and everybody except the terminally brain-softened > ============================== Libya or Syria are not russian allies or puppets; they are just clever at playing the russian card against the american card, and vice-versa. Actually, Khaddafy, and to a lesser extent Assad, are staunch strong anti-communists. (Have you read Khaddafy's little green book? It reminds you of Mc-Carthy's speeches). The late egyptian president Sadate also played well the american vs the russian political game to leverage his position. __________________________________ Chedley Aouriri ITT-ATC, Shelton , CT. ...ittatc!ittvax!aouriri
mr@homxb.UUCP (M.RINDSBERG) (01/19/86)
> In reply to Oded Feingold's posting: > > > > True, Libya may have helped with a little misdirection [passports > > lifted from Tunisian spies last summer], but the point of departure was > > Lebanon, and the guiding force and source of arms was SYRIA. > > The lifted passports did not belong to Tunisian spies; they have > been confiscated from Tunisian workers in Libya. And how did they come to belong to the terrorists ??? Obviously someone in Libya decided to help out the terrorists a bit. > > > So why doesn't the US attack Syria? Two reasons: > > Syria is closely allied with the > > USSR, and an attack on her can be expected to call down a heavy Soviet > > response. > > You can certainly assert that Israel is closer allied with the USA, > than Syria is with the USSR. That's why Syria did not attack Israel. The question was whether the US should attack Syria or Libya or whatever country is supporting terrorism, Not whether Syria should attack Israel. I don't know why Syria would want to attack Israel since Israel hasn't done anything to them but exist. > > > 2. The Syrians are playing Americans against themselves, > > So are the Israelis: they scramble their lobbies and the american > jewish organizations (which are under their direct control) and The major American Jewish Organizations are not in any way controlled by the Israeli Government. In fact, the Israeli Government would be very happy to control these groups and have them say what is necessary to say and not what they have been doimg recently. > major segments of the mass media to denounce and overturn any > action taken by the US, if they perceive it as against their short > term interest or emotions (Remember Awacs, Bitburg, The memo of > understanding,....) So what else is new, The "Jews" control the media. What else should concerned Jews do ?? Stand by and watch the US send major arms to their enemies. Watch their president acknowledge their major killers. > And of course, on the other hand, they are right on time every > fiscal year to get billions of dollars of never-to-be-repaid loans, > grants, military assistance,.... Whatever is in the US interest. It might count someday to have a solid ally in the middle east. > > 4. If you believe Noam Chomsky, Israel WANTS her opponents to be > > fanatical terrorists - that buys political leverage for her [genocidal? > > theocratic? terroristic? nuclear-crazy? foolish? cute? slave to > > American dictates?] policies at home and abroad. Why cut off the flow > > of wonderful homicidal maniacs and lose that great source of internal > > public acquiescence, that great excuse for American military aid, that > > terrific supply of popular sympathy in Europe and among the dirt farmers > > You do not have to believe anybody to find out what Israel wants. > Just look at cold facts: Israel wants to get rid of the > palestinians, because it took their homeland to set up its state. Whose homeland ????? > Short of exterminating them (some israeli politicians dream loudly > about that), Israel decided that there is no palestinian problem. No problem, Only terrorists trying to kill you every time you set foot outside the country. I consider that a problem. > But the rest of the world does not buy it. So, Israel settled to > the lesser false equation : Palestinians = PLO = Terrorists. I don't know if it was Israel which settled this more than the European countries which are getting sick and tired of terrorism on their continent. (They just don't have the guts to do anything about it) > Whenever peace talks start to tackle the palestinian problem, > Israel performs a "military surgical strike" against some > palestinian camp, triggering reprisal terrorist actions, and > derailing the peace process. You can check the chronology of all > israeli attacks to confirm this. The latest being the raid on > PLO quarters in Tunis, which has been performed at the very moment, > almost to the hour_ when King Hussein was visiting Washington, > trying to convince the US government of the necessity of including > representative palestinians in peace talks with Israel. How can we include the palestinians in peace talks with Israel if they won't even acknowledge the existence of Israel. > The result of that raid is well known: reprisal terrorist actions, > the Achille Lauro, Abu-el-Abbas, Abu-Nidhal,...and most important > to the Israelis, no more talk about peace process, or settlment of > the palestinian problem. Do you actually think that Israel doesn't want peace, that is pretty stupid. I don't know any Israeli that doesn't want peace. > Since Israel cannot come to terms with the fact that there is a > palestinian people who has the inalienable right to live sovereign > in its homeland, Israel resorts to all kinds of tricks in the bag > and off the bag to deny the existence of the problem. > > Actually, it is in Israel's own long term interest to settle the > palestinian problem and live in peace with its neighbours. > Because if in the short term Israel can count on the US > support and protection, it is foolish for Israel to count on it > forever (ask the south vietnamese!). By the way the US hasn't fought any of Israel's wars. The Israelis fought them and are very good at it (out of neccesity). > > The US is going to scream and yell (at Libya -- that's safe: Not at > > Syria or the USSR) and everybody except the terminally brain-softened > > ============================== > > Libya or Syria are not russian allies or puppets; they are just > clever at playing the russian card against the american card, and > vice-versa. Actually, Khaddafy, and to a lesser extent Assad, are > staunch strong anti-communists. (Have you read Khaddafy's little > green book? It reminds you of Mc-Carthy's speeches). > The late egyptian president Sadate also played well the american > vs the russian political game to leverage his position. > __________________________________ > Chedley Aouriri > ITT-ATC, Shelton , CT. > ...ittatc!ittvax!aouriri > Mark homxb!mr
brandx@ihlpl.UUCP (H. D. Weisberg) (01/20/86)
Chedley says: > > So are the Israelis: they scramble their lobbies and the american > jewish organizations (which are under their direct control) and > major segments of the mass media to denounce and overturn any > action taken by the US, if they perceive it as against their short > term interest or emotions (Remember Awacs, Bitburg, The memo of > understanding,....) If you refer to AWACS, Bitburg as "short term interest or emotion" than you are demonstrating your ignorance. AWACS are not a short term concern. I expect both Israel and Saudi Arabia to be around for a while and therefore they are LONG term concerns. And of course you can't understand that Bitburg is much more than an emotional issue. > > You do not have to believe anybody to find out what Israel wants. > Just look at cold facts: Israel wants to get rid of the > palestinians, because it took their homeland to set up its state. You would love to believe that this is the case. It is NOT. Israel does not want to get rid of the Palestinians and is doing her best to ensure that Kahane never gets the chance to have any clout behind his ideas. Israel "took" noone's homeland. There's no sense getting into another debate about that. You are trying to spread fallacies that the Arab world wants everyone to believe. The fact is that the Palestinians want to get rid of the Jews. Ask Arafat if he condemns the airport attacks he says "yes" but that it's ok to do such things in "occupied Palestine". Ask him to define "occupied Palestine" and he refuses. He means all of Israel. No wonder he won't recognize Israel. Do you recognize Israel or do you mimmick Arafat? > Short of exterminating them (some israeli politicians dream loudly > about that), Israel decided that there is no palestinian problem. > > But the rest of the world does not buy it. So, Israel settled to > the lesser false equation : Palestinians = PLO = Terrorists. What the rest of the world buys is oil. > The result of that raid is well known: reprisal terrorist actions, > the Achille Lauro, Abu-el-Abbas, Abu-Nidhal,...and most important > to the Israelis, no more talk about peace process, or settlment of > the palestinian problem. I guess Arafat deemed Abu Nidhal his personal protector. Are you trying to say that Nidhal has taken protection of the PLO as one of his causes or is it just an excuse. You can add Rome and Vienna to your list (is that what "..." stands for?). Are you saying that the "reprisals" are justified? > > Since Israel cannot come to terms with the fact that there is a > palestinian people who has the inalienable right to live sovereign > in its homeland, Israel resorts to all kinds of tricks in the bag > and off the bag to deny the existence of the problem. Tell us about pre-1967 Palestinian sovereignity. Where was Palestine before then?
brandx@ihlpl.UUCP (H. D. Weisberg) (01/20/86)
Chedley says: > > So are the Israelis: they scramble their lobbies and the american > jewish organizations (which are under their direct control) and > major segments of the mass media to denounce and overturn any > action taken by the US, if they perceive it as against their short > term interest or emotions (Remember Awacs, Bitburg, The memo of > understanding,....) American Jewish organizations and lobbies are under noone's control but their own. Because they are concerned with Israel and support much of what Israel does, you assume that they're under Israeli control. American Jewish organizations don't unilaterally agree with all Israeli policies and actions; they have come under fire at times (from both Americans and Israelis) for this.