daly@nybcb.UUCP (daly) (01/13/86)
In December, the legal drinking age went up to 21 in the state of New
York. Governor Cuomo and the other supporters of this law say that they support
the new law because it will saves lives by reducing alcohol related traffic
fatalities. I'm sure this is true. By the same argument, if you raise the
legal drinking age to 31 it will also reduce alcohol related traffic fatal-
ities, or 41 or 51 or 61. The draft age is 18. We trust 18-20 year olds with
M-16's in the army, but not with alcohol. I think that's ridiculous. 18-20
year olds are adults. To raise the drinking age to 21 is limited Prohibition,
in my opinion & history shows us what a failure Prohibition was. By the way I
am 23 years old, so the law didn't affect me. It just angered me.
Shawn P. Daly
seismo!cmcl2!nybcb!dalyoaf@mit-vax.UUCP (Oded Feingold) (01/15/86)
In the mind-60s I phoned in to a radio talk show. The topic under
discussion was _lowering_ the drinking age to 18 so our brave boys could
die with alcohol in their bloodstreams. I opposed it. My reasoning was
that society must due two things to educate its population:
------------------------------
1. Keep the majority of people in violation of the law most of the
time, so when the cops want to get them they have a convenient handle.
[Examples: 55 mph speed limits (imposed much later, of course),
proscriptions against spitting on the sidewalk, loitering and
jaywalking, etc.]
2. Inform them that they may be legislated into a subservient
position at the whim of the legislature, and that they must not assume
they have the right to oppose or live independently of the state.
Certainly imposing an alcohol ban on draftable people is a good reminder
of unprivileged status.
------------------------------
The host argued vigorously with me, claiming that the great US
society did not indulge in such treatment of anybody, let alone its own
citizens. [That in 1965 - voting rights had been legislated but not
implemented for Blacks across the south, let alone any issues of
desegregating Boston schools. Heh heh.]
My belief in those tenets grows stronger, year by year. What's YOUR
excuse?
--
Oded Feingold MIT AI Lab. 545 Tech Square Cambridge, Mass. 02139
OAF%OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA {harvard, ihnp4!mit-eddie}!mitvax!oaf 617-253-8598tw8023@pyuxii.UUCP (T Wheeler) (01/15/86)
There is only one tiny flaw in the last poster's logic concerning 18 to 20 year olds in the army being trusted with M16s. The M16s are all locked up and guarded by a big mean sargent until they are taken out and used under supervision by other big mean sargents. Perhaps we could allow the 18 to 20 year olds to drink, but only under supervision of some big mean sargent types? T. C. Wheeler
mr@homxb.UUCP (M.RINDSBERG) (01/15/86)
> In December, the legal drinking age went up to 21 in the state of New > York. Governor Cuomo and the other supporters of this law say that they support > the new law because it will saves lives by reducing alcohol related traffic > fatalities. I'm sure this is true. By the same argument, if you raise the > legal drinking age to 31 it will also reduce alcohol related traffic fatal- > ities, or 41 or 51 or 61. The draft age is 18. We trust 18-20 year olds with > M-16's in the army, but not with alcohol. I think that's ridiculous. 18-20 > year olds are adults. To raise the drinking age to 21 is limited Prohibition, > in my opinion & history shows us what a failure Prohibition was. By the way I > am 23 years old, so the law didn't affect me. It just angered me. > Shawn P. Daly > seismo!cmcl2!nybcb!daly This is a useless argument. The law doesn't say that 18-21 year olds are not permitted to drink alcohol. The law says that they can't be served or sold alcohol. This is a most ignored law around, any 18 year old who wants to drink will get hold of alcohol, in fact, the local bar will sell it to him despite any laws (i.e. power of the buck) All these laws are useless. The only way to stop drunk driving is to make the penalty something to be feared. (i.e. loss of licence for good on first offense, jail on second offense, death on third offense plus high fines for each) Mark homxb!mr
bottom_david@mtblue.DEC (DAVE BOTTOM ASO/4AC 271-6935) (01/15/86)
Shawn P. Daly writes: >comments about the unfairness of raising the drinking age to 21 text >deleted Several points: 1. I agree that if you're old enough to fight and die then you are old enough to drink. However on all military bases even in those states that have a drinking age of 21, 18 year old servicemen are allowed to buy beer, although they are not allowed to buy hard liquor. This is DOD policy. 2. The main reason that raising the drinking age to 18 is so effective is because it is an effective measure in removing alcohol from high schools. Most 18 year olds have no heistation in buying for their 16 & 17 year old friends. Most 21 year olds have few friends that are still in high school. 3. There is no draft. Dave Bottom DEC Augusta Maine !dec-rhea!dec-mtblue!bottom_david *This is my opinion not the opinion of DEC*
berman@psuvax1.UUCP (Piotr Berman) (01/16/86)
> Shawn P. Daly writes: > >comments about the unfairness of raising the drinking age to 21 text > >deleted > > Several points: > > 1. I agree that if you're old enough to fight and die then you are old > enough to drink. However on all military bases even in those states that > have a drinking age of 21, 18 year old servicemen are allowed to buy > beer, although they are not allowed to buy hard liquor. This is DOD > policy. > Which will be outlawed soon, if the trend continues. > 2. The main reason that raising the drinking age to 18 is so effective > is because it is an effective measure in removing alcohol from high > schools. Most 18 year olds have no heistation in buying for their 16 & > 17 year old friends. Most 21 year olds have few friends that are still > in high school. > Next step: drinking age of 25, to remove alcohol from campuses (most 22 year old do not hesitate in buing for their 20 year old frinds). > 3. There is no draft. > ???? > Dave Bottom > *This is my opinion not the opinion of DEC* It would be sufficient to make first DiI violation punishable by revoking the licence until the age of 21. The drunken driving by 16 year olds continues even in states with 21 drinking age. One should really scare those kids who destroy their lives, utility poles etc. Piotr Berman
thill@ssc-bee.UUCP (Tom Hill) (01/21/86)
> > 1. I agree that if you're old enough to fight and die then you are old > > enough to drink. However on all military bases even in those states that > > have a drinking age of 21, 18 year old servicemen are allowed to buy > > beer, although they are not allowed to buy hard liquor. This is DOD > > policy. > > > Which will be outlawed soon, if the trend continues. I guess I don't understand the reason for this attack on what Dave said. Implying that something may or may-not happen in the future does not make a useful argument. It seems reasonable that a person who is drafted is also given the right to consume alcohol before he might normally be allowed to. > > > 2. The main reason that raising the drinking age to 18 is so effective > > is because it is an effective measure in removing alcohol from high > > schools. Most 18 year olds have no heistation in buying for their 16 & > > 17 year old friends. Most 21 year olds have few friends that are still > > in high school. > > > Next step: drinking age of 25, to remove alcohol from campuses (most 22 > year old do not hesitate in buing for their 20 year old frinds). > The fallacy of "slippery slope" applies here. Why heck, if you can drive at 16 you should be able to drink. Right? > > 3. There is no draft. > > > ???? Of course there is registration. > > > Dave Bottom > > *This is my opinion not the opinion of DEC* > . > . > . > Piotr Berman Tom Hill
berman@psuvax1.UUCP (Piotr Berman) (01/23/86)
> > > 2. The main reason that raising the drinking age to [above?] 18 is so effective > > > is because it is an effective measure in removing alcohol from high > > > schools. Most 18 year olds have no heistation in buying for their 16 & > > > 17 year old friends. Most 21 year olds have few friends that are still > > > in high school. > > > > > Next step: drinking age of 25, to remove alcohol from campuses (most 22 > > year old do not hesitate in buing for their 20 year old frinds). > > > > The fallacy of "slippery slope" applies here. Why heck, if you can drive at > 16 you should be able to drink. Right? > I merely claimed that since drinking on campuses is also a problem, same reasoning could apply. If it does not apply on campuses, perhaps it is deficient when applied to high-shools. Many people claim that it is better to be familiarized with drinking when there is a moderating influence of the family, then in a situation where such an influence does not exists. > > . > > Piotr Berman > > Tom Hill Piotr