hfavr@mtuxo.UUCP (a.reed) (03/10/86)
Farzin Mokhtarian: > (The) Haganah .... participated in the massacre at Deir Yassin of 254 > women, children and old men. The massacre at Dir Yassin was carried out by the Irgun and Stern forces in an attempt to outflank the Haganah, which considered Dir Yassin a friendly village (check any military history of the Israeli War of Independence). Jewish political leaders associated with the Haganah uniformly condemned the Irgun-Stern murderers. The Hagah high command issued an order for the arrest of the killers, but this order wasn't carried out because Jerusalem, where they were located, was cut off from the rest of Israel by the Arab siege. After the siege of Jerusalem was lifted the terrorists took refuge on board Irgun ship "Altalena", and probably died when the "Altalena" was sunk by Palmach artillery. The sinking of the "Altalena" took place during a brief but bloody civil conflict, between the Haganah and Palmach on one side, and the Irgun and Stern on the other, following the end of the first part of Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Adam Reed (ihnp4!npois!adam)
hijab@cad.UUCP (Raif Hijab) (03/10/86)
In article <1389@mtuxo.UUCP>, hfavr@mtuxo.UUCP (a.reed) writes: > Farzin Mokhtarian: > > (The) Haganah .... participated in the massacre at Deir Yassin of 254 > > women, children and old men. > > The massacre at Dir Yassin was carried out by the Irgun and Stern > forces in an attempt to outflank the Haganah, which considered Dir > Yassin a friendly village (check any military history of the Israeli War > of Independence). Jewish political leaders associated with the Haganah > uniformly condemned the Irgun-Stern murderers. The Hagah high command > issued an order for the arrest of the killers, but this order wasn't > > Adam Reed (ihnp4!npois!adam) Natan Weinstock, in his book "Zionism, False Messiah" (Ink Links, London, 1979) writes (p.235), "This disgusting massacre took place in the very month when the Haganah had negotiated a cooperation agreement with the Irgun. Moreover, according to the Palestine Post (a Jewish paper) of April 13th 1948, the Palmach units 'provided covering fire' during the mass murder of men, women and children at Deir Yassin."
mokhtar@ubc-vision.UUCP (Farzin Mokhtarian) (03/11/86)
Subject: Haganah and terrorists > The massacre at Dir Yassin was carried out by the Irgun and Stern > forces in an attempt to outflank the Haganah, which considered Dir > Yassin a friendly village (check any military history of the Israeli War > of Independence). Jewish political leaders associated with the Haganah > uniformly condemned the Irgun-Stern murderers. [Adam Reed] Indeed. After the full extent of the brutality displayed in Deir Yassin was known, David Shaltiel, the Haganah commander in Jerusalem, issued a statement in which he said: "The splinter groups did not launch a military operation ... they chose one of the quiet villages in the area that had not been connected with any of the gang attacks since the start of the present campaign; one of the few villages that has not let foreign gangs in. For a full day, Etzel and LEHI soldiers stood and slaughtered men, women and children, not in the course of operation, but in a premediated act which had as its intention slaughter and murder only. They also took spoils and when they finished their work, they fled." (See: Terror out of Zion, J. Bowyer-Bell, St. Martin's Press, New York 1977) In response to Shaltiel's statement, Irgun released a letter by Shaltiel to the Irgun and Stern gang leaders in which he had said: "I learn that you plan an attack on Deir Yassin. I wish to point out that the capture of Deir Yassin and its holding are one stage in our general plan. I have no objection to your carrying out the operation provided you are able to hold the village." It was learned later that twenty Haganah soldiers had participated in the attack. -- Farzin Mokhtarian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "We will wrestle with God and with death, We will welcome the Redeemer of Zion."
hfavr@mtuxo.UUCP (a.reed) (03/12/86)
> > Farzin Mokhtarian: > In article <1389@mtuxo.UUCP>, hfavr@mtuxo.UUCP (a.reed) writes: > > Farzin Mokhtarian: > > > (The) Haganah .... participated in the massacre at Deir Yassin of 254 > > > women, children and old men. > > > > The massacre at Dir Yassin was carried out by the Irgun and Stern > > forces in an attempt to outflank the Haganah, which considered Dir > > Yassin a friendly village (check any military history of the Israeli War > > of Independence). Jewish political leaders associated with the Haganah > > uniformly condemned the Irgun-Stern murderers. The Haganah high command > > issued an order for the arrest of the killers, but this order wasn't > > > > Adam Reed (ihnp4!npois!adam) > > Natan Weinstock, in his book "Zionism, False Messiah" (Ink Links, > London, 1979) writes (p.235), > "This disgusting massacre took place in the very month when > the Haganah had negotiated a cooperation agreement with the Irgun. The Irgun broke this agreement by the attack on Dir Yassin. > Moreover, according to the Palestine Post (a Jewish > paper) of April 13th 1948, the Palmach units 'provided > covering fire' during the mass murder of men, women and > children at Deir Yassin." I find this hard to believe for two reasons. First, the only Palmach units in the Jerusalem area at the time were stationed in the Old City and in the Etzion block, both of which were cut off from the rest of the city by Arab Legion forces. Thus, there was no way for them to be in action anywhere near Dir Yassin. Second, the Palmach was led by Communists and Left-Socialists; it reported to Moshe Sneh, later a leader of the (largely Arab) Communist Party. It was also ethnically mixed, including significant numbers of Druse, Beduin, and Christian Arabs. Thus, even had they somehow managed to get there, they would have been extremely unlikely to collaborate with Irgun and Stern. It is more likely that the Palestine Post goofed. Adam Reed (ihnp4!npois!adam)
martillo@mit-trillian.MIT.EDU (Yakim Martillo) (03/15/86)
In article <1393@mtuxo.UUCP> hfavr@mtuxo.UUCP (a.reed) writes: >> > Farzin Mokhtarian: >> In article <1389@mtuxo.UUCP>, hfavr@mtuxo.UUCP (a.reed) writes: >> > Farzin Mokhtarian: >> > > (The) Haganah .... participated in the massacre at Deir Yassin of 254 >> > > women, children and old men. >> > >> > The massacre at Dir Yassin was carried out by the Irgun and Stern >> > forces in an attempt to outflank the Haganah, which considered Dir >> > Yassin a friendly village (check any military history of the Israeli War >> > of Independence). Jewish political leaders associated with the Haganah >> > uniformly condemned the Irgun-Stern murderers. The Haganah high command >> > issued an order for the arrest of the killers, but this order wasn't >> > >> > Adam Reed (ihnp4!npois!adam) >> >> Natan Weinstock, in his book "Zionism, False Messiah" (Ink Links, >> London, 1979) writes (p.235), >> "This disgusting massacre took place in the very month when >> the Haganah had negotiated a cooperation agreement with the Irgun. > >The Irgun broke this agreement by the attack on Dir Yassin. > >> Moreover, according to the Palestine Post (a Jewish >> paper) of April 13th 1948, the Palmach units 'provided >> covering fire' during the mass murder of men, women and >> children at Deir Yassin." > >I find this hard to believe for two reasons. First, the only Palmach >units in the Jerusalem area at the time were stationed in the Old City >and in the Etzion block, both of which were cut off from the rest of the >city by Arab Legion forces. Thus, there was no way for them to be in >action anywhere near Dir Yassin. Second, the Palmach was led by >Communists and Left-Socialists; it reported to Moshe Sneh, later a >leader of the (largely Arab) Communist Party. It was also ethnically >mixed, including significant numbers of Druse, Beduin, and Christian >Arabs. Thus, even had they somehow managed to get there, they would have >been extremely unlikely to collaborate with Irgun and Stern. It is more >likely that the Palestine Post goofed. > Adam Reed (ihnp4!npois!adam) As I understand the incident, Muslim terrorists were using Deir Yassin as a base to attack the Jewish community. The Irgun, Stern Gang and Haganah jointly planned an attack. Irgunists and Sternists carried out the attack. Before the attack safe passage out was provided for civilians, and about 200 made use of this opportunity. Then the Muslim terrorists pretended to surrender but instead tried to ambush the Jewish forces. In the ensuing fighting the Jews used blanket fire and explosives against the Muslim terrorists. After the battle the Jewish forces found many civilians who had stayed (or who had been forced to stay -- Muslim forces in recent times have often cowardly used civilians as shields -- this was standard practice in Lebanon) had been killed along with the Muslim terrorists. In its usual duplicitous fashion the Haganah denounced the action and tried to disassociate themselves. In fact, the Sternists and Irgunists acted properly. Muslims have mistreated non-Muslims for the last millenium and continue to do so until this day. Muslims must learn that this type of shit will no longer be tolerated. Until Muslims learn, Muslims deserve no consideration. If I am a commander and I must chose between casualties for Muslim civilians who are abetting Muslim terrorists and casualties for my own men, Muslims will suffer. In any case Deir Yassin was in no way similar to the usual massacre by Muslims of non-Muslims where Muslims just randomly pick out a group of inoffensive non-Muslims and slaughter them (often children -- as has been going on in East Timor and on and of in various parts of Indonesia and Malaysia since indepence). Muslim apologists for Muslim attrocities, non-Muslims brown-nosing Muslim fanatics and warped self-hating European Jews constantly distort and bring up Deir Yassin (which happened I should point out almost thirty years ago) because over the past thirty years and in fact over the past millenium there are no actions by Jews against Muslims which are in any way similar or comparable to the least of attrocities which Muslims have been committing against non-Muslims. A genuine progressive should first concentrate on the problem of extirpating Islamic barbarism before he even thinks of worrying about minor Zionist nasties. Bigots like Farzin Mokhtarian reiterate Deir Yassin to obscure the real issue: Islam is no longer acceptable. It must either change or be extirpated.