thill@ssc-bee.UUCP (Tom Hill) (03/14/86)
<No Virginia, there is no line-eater> Ah yes, the CIA, the great shapeless monster of every liberal's dreams. Spying is an international pastime. Surely, I am disgusted when I read about those who have been caught spying for a foreign power and applaud our own people when we learn important information. So what? It is a lot like cheering for your home team. Don't read more into it than is really there. Certainly there have been abuses but to dismantle such an important organization simply because of this is absurd. Note the recent discussion of Enigma. Do you think the Nazis gave us one of their coder/decoders with which our collection of puzzle bugs, math whizzes, ect were able to break the German code? The value of inside information is beyond question. Note the threats by Momar to send hit squads to the US. Aren't you at least a little bit curious whether or not he has? No? What about other terrorist groups? Well, thankfully quite a few of us do care. Generic Disclaimer, Tom Hill
myers@uwmacc.UUCP (03/17/86)
> Ah yes, the CIA, the great shapeless monster of every liberal's dreams. > Spying is an international pastime. Surely, I am disgusted when I read > about those who have been caught spying for a foreign power and applaud > our own people when we learn important information. So what? It is a lot > like cheering for your home team.Don't read more into it than is really there. > Certainly there have been abuses but to dismantle such an important > organization simply because of this is absurd. > Well, thankfully quite a few of us do care. > > Generic Disclaimer, > > Tom Hill The argument on the net has not been over their info gathering but over their overt manipulation of other countries' affairs. Have you been reading the articles, or just the Subject lines? I'm glad you care, but I would prefer your caring if it was a little less ethnocentric/nationalistic. jdm
mc68020@gilbbs.UUCP (Tom Keller) (03/18/86)
> > Ah yes, the CIA, the great shapeless monster of every liberal's dreams. > > Spying is an international pastime. Surely, I am disgusted when I read > > about those who have been caught spying for a foreign power and applaud > > our own people when we learn important information. So what? It is a lot > > like cheering for your home team.Don't read more into it than is really there. > > Certainly there have been abuses but to dismantle such an important > > organization simply because of this is absurd. I get really tired of this form of nationalistic bullshit. Look, turkies, you *DIDN'T* choose to be Americans (most of you). You were born American by the same genetic accidents that caused Russians to be born Russian, and Haitians to be born Haitians. Comparing nationalism to "rooting for the home team" is ludicrous. With sports, you choose to support some team for whatever personal reasons suit you. You have *CHOSEN* to be a supporter of that team. Face it, those who support the interference by the U.S. in the internal affairs of other nations, against the wishes of that nation, are racists, or minimally elitists. They feel that due to the accident of their having been born American, they have the right to impose upon others what they would *NEVER* tolerate being imposed upoin themselves. Given that in almost every case, America is interfering with non-white nations and peoples, this translates very neatly into racism. -- ==================================== Disclaimer: I hereby disclaim any and all responsibility for disclaimers. tom keller {ihnp4, dual}!ptsfa!gilbbs!mc68020 (* we may not be big, but we're small! *)
thill@ssc-bee.UUCP (Tom Hill) (03/21/86)
> > > > [ stuff from me deleted ] > > > > Certainly there have been abuses but to dismantle such an important > > organization simply because of this is absurd. > > > The argument on the net has not been over their info gathering but over their > overt manipulation of other countries' affairs. Have you been reading the > articles, or just the Subject lines? > > jdm If you had read the articles you would know that the suggestion was to get rid of the CIA because of these abuses. Sorry about making a relevant comment, awfully silly of me. I also don't see why everything on this net has to be an "argument." Why can't we just discuss things? Tom Hill In capitalism Man exploits Man, in communism it's the other way around. Rude and uncalled for comments deleted.
thill@ssc-bee.UUCP (Tom Hill) (03/21/86)
>> Ah yes, the CIA, the great shapeless monster of every liberal's dreams. >> Spying is an international pastime. Surely, I am disgusted when I read >> about those who have been caught spying for a foreign power and applaud >> our own people when we learn important information. So what? It is a lot >> like cheering for your home team.Don't read more into it than is really there. >> Certainly there have been abuses but to dismantle such an important >> organization simply because of this is absurd. Prepare for knee-jerk reaction... > > I get really tired of this form of nationalistic bullshit. > [stuff deleted] > > Comparing nationalism to "rooting for the home team" is ludicrous. With > sports, you choose to support some team for whatever personal reasons suit > you. You have *CHOSEN* to be a supporter of that team. If you had been reading this topic (where have I heard that before :-) you would have realized that I was responding to the comments that 1. The CIA should be done away with 2. that because we try to get people from other countries to tell secrets we should not complain when someone from our country gives away our secrets. > > Face it, those who support the interference by the U.S. in the internal > affairs of other nations, against the wishes of that nation, are racists, > or minimally elitists. They feel that due to the accident of their having > been born American, they have the right to impose upon others what they > would *NEVER* tolerate being imposed upoin themselves. Given that in almost > every case, America is interfering with non-white nations and peoples, this > translates very neatly into racism. > Settle down Mr. Keller and you might be able to discuss the question at hand. Name calling and type casting does not become you. No one here on the net has advocated CIA intervention. I merely stated that doing away with the CIA because of past grievences and ignoring all the needed information gathering that they do, is dumb. Make sure they do not do it again but don't get rid of them. Did Miami fire all their Officers when several were found to be involved in a drug ring? If you want to call that racism ect, fine. Read with an open mind. Just because I have disagreed with you in the past doesn't mean that I will disagree with you now or in the future. > > tom keller Just for the record, I am not now nor have I ever been a racist. Tom Hill
drsimon@watlion.UUCP (Daniel R. Simon) (03/24/86)
In article <95@gilbbs.UUCP> mc68020@gilbbs.UUCP (Tom Keller) writes: > > Face it, those who support the interference by the U.S. in the internal >affairs of other nations, against the wishes of that nation, are racists, >or minimally elitists. They feel that due to the accident of their having >been born American, they have the right to impose upon others what they >would *NEVER* tolerate being imposed upoin themselves. Given that in almost >every case, America is interfering with non-white nations and peoples, this >translates very neatly into racism. > And this translates very neatly into baloney. Race is as red a herring as has ever been introduced into this issue. Democratic principles, not race, govern the motives of (most of) those of us who support western interventionism. Speaking as a Canadian, I hereby promise that if Canada is ever taken over by a dictatorship of any stripe, and the U.S. fails to find the moxie to invade and restore democracy, then Japan and Jamaica, democracies both, are both invited to save me and my hypothetically helpless fellow Canadians. The man (or woman) who returns to me my vote and my voice can be nine feet tall, furry and green, and still I will cheer him/her on. The people of Grenada apparently feel exactly as I do. So please don't bring race into an issue where it doesn't belong--race is brought up far too often as it is. > >tom keller >{ihnp4, dual}!ptsfa!gilbbs!mc68020 > Daniel R. Simon "I would never place a quotation at the end of my posting." -D. Simon
mc68020@gilbbs.UUCP (Tom Keller) (03/25/86)
In article <509@ssc-bee.UUCP>, thill@ssc-bee.UUCP (Tom Hill) writes: > > > > > > [ stuff from me deleted ] > > > > > > Certainly there have been abuses but to dismantle such an important > > > organization simply because of this is absurd. > > > > > > The argument on the net has not been over their info gathering but over their > > overt manipulation of other countries' affairs. Have you been reading the > > articles, or just the Subject lines? > > > > jdm > > If you had read the articles you would know that the suggestion was to get > rid of the CIA because of these abuses. Sorry about making a relevant > comment, awfully silly of me. > > I also don't see why everything on this net has to be an "argument." > Why can't we just discuss things? > Because, Tom, right-wing facist dupes like yourself keep putting forward all sorts of lies, misinformation and misrepresentations in order to support the myth of the Great Communist Conspiracy! (doesn't feel so good, does it? Don't like being called names, and being told how stupid you are, do you?...well, that is what the supporters of the administration continually do to anyone with the guts and intelligence to disagree publically. ***THAT*** is why things here consistently wind up as arguments, rather than discussions) -- ==================================== Disclaimer: I hereby disclaim any and all responsibility for disclaimers. tom keller {ihnp4, dual}!ptsfa!gilbbs!mc68020 (* we may not be big, but we're small! *)