mcb@styx.UUCP (Michael C. Berch) (09/11/86)
In <15613@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> lazarus@brahms.UUCP (Andrew J Lazarus) writes: > In article <20811@styx.UUCP> mcb@styx.UUCP (Michael C. Berch) writes: > >. . . > >I have no idea why there are no black Rockettes. Perhaps this is due > >to racial discrimination; more likely it is due to the fact that black > >applicants simply didn't apply because they perceived that they were > >unlikely to get hired. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Because of illegal discrimination. According to you, it is discrimination > (not that you seem bothered by that) when blacks apply and are turned away > but it's not once you have discriminated long enough that blacks stop > asking. So you have an *incentive* to continue to discriminate! No. If blacks *would* have been hired, but did not apply because of perceived discrimination, that's NOT discrimination. Of course I am "bothered" by racial discrimination. It is, to me, both morally wrong and economically stupid. I am just as bothered by wrong-headed remedies that include reverse discrimination that favor persons who have not individually been discriminated against (perhaps their parents or ancestors were, by different employers, somethime in the past, but that's not at issue) at the unfair expense of those who did not actually participate in discrimination. Looks kinda different in that light, doesn't it? > >Does this mean that the Rockettes are LEGALLY > >REQUIRED to go out and hire some black dancers? If so, this country > >is in pretty sorry shape. > > Gee, next they might be required to let them use the same toilets. Mr. Lazarus' attempt at sarcasm falls a bit flat. Neither equality of accomodations OR equality of opportunity are at issue here. The Rockettes should not be required (or encouraged, or blackmailed) to hire any particular individual for any reason other than their ability and contribution to the program, and CERTAINLY not based on their race. > >The problem with affirmative action "guidelines" is that employers are > >bullied into using them as quotas, since the alternative is to face > >expensive litigation. This leads inexorably to making hiring decisions > >based on ethnicity rather than quality, since the downside risk is so > >great. > > Hey -- all those discriminators made hiring decisions based on > ethnicity for years. And to think -- all you libertarians and > conservatives didn't care at all. That was until they started > making decisions that left you on the short end. Yup, they did, and they were wrong to have done so. It is no more right to force them to continue to do so now in the name of "equality". If making hiring decisions based on race is "wrong", why is it OK when practiced against the majority? Interesting what you mean about being left on the "short end"... My family and ancestors, being Jewish, have historically been discriminated against in education and hiring both in the US and elsewhere. My father was unable, despite his excellent academic record, to get into the graduate chemistry program of his choice because of anti-semitism. NEVERTHELESS, I WOULD NOT WANT OR ACCEPT ANY PREFERENCE IN HIRING BECAUSE OF THIS OR ANY OTHER DISCRIMINATION. The shoe is now on the other foot: I was denied admission to my first choice of law schools (a public institution) solely because of anti-white racial discrimination (minority students with substantially lower GPAs and LSAT scores were admitted). This was the year of the Bakke decision, when reverse discrimination was at its peak. I should add that this did not materially affect my ability to get a good job, as I was admitted at a school of equal or better quality, and have a perfectly good job which I enjoy greatly (NOT as a lawyer (;-). > > >[NOW, NAACP, liberal govt. says] "Quality, who cares?" > > You say "EQuality, who cares?" Nope. I'd just like to get race, religion and gender out of hiring and educational decisions. It never belonged there in the first place, as Mr. Lazarus admirably notes. Michael C. Berch ARPA: mcb@lll-tis-b.ARPA UUCP: {ihnp4,dual,sun}!lll-lcc!styx!mcb