il@utai.UUCP (09/15/87)
Has anyone ever done a study of the rate of increase of textbook prices on a year to year basis? Last year's inflation was 4.6%. Is it my imagination or are the book prices going up at more than that across the street?
tjhorton@utai.UUCP (09/15/87)
>il@utai.UUCP (Indra Laksono) writes (in "FLAMES on textbook prices"): >Has anyone ever done a study of the rate of increase of textbook prices >on a year to year basis? Last year's inflation was 4.6%. Is it my >imagination or are the book prices going up at more than that across the >street? The implied gripe may be a bit wrong-sighted. For example: LOTS of books come from outside Canada. The Canadian dollar hasn't done well on international markets over the last 2 years. Etc. You can't complain until you know where the "inflation" is coming from. It might even come indirectly from you - like more money to faculty and students, less money to subsidize the bookroom this year. Or whatever. The complaint may be valid, but before griping you ought to question it from a broader perspective. ("but that's not the NDP way" :-) Tim -- Timothy J Horton (416) 979-3109 tjhorton@ai.toronto.edu (CSnet,UUCP,Bitnet) Dept of Computer Science tjhorton@ai.toronto.cdn (EAN X.400) University of Toronto, {seismo,watmath}!ai.toronto.edu!tjhorton Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4
kuldip@uthub.UUCP (09/15/87)
In article <4068@utai.UUCP> tjhorton@ai.UUCP (Timothy J. Horton) writes: [deleted] >It might even come indirectly from you - like more money to faculty and >students, less money to subsidize the bookroom this year. Or whatever. >[deleted] That bookroom is subsidised comes as news to me. How come one can get books at the same or sometimes even at slightly lower price from other bookstores in Toronto? Is there something more to it than meets the eye? Kuldip R Pathak kuldip@uthub
peterr@utcsri.UUCP (09/15/87)
> >il@utai.UUCP (Indra Laksono) writes (in "FLAMES on textbook prices"): > >Has anyone ever done a study of the rate of increase of textbook prices > >on a year to year basis? Last year's inflation was 4.6%. Is it my > >imagination or are the book prices going up at more than that across the > >street? > Tim Horton replies: > The implied gripe may be a bit wrong-sighted. > For example: LOTS of books come from outside Canada. The Canadian dollar > hasn't done well on international markets over the last 2 years. Etc. > You can't complain until you know where the "inflation" is coming from. > It might even come indirectly from you - like more money to faculty and > students, less money to subsidize the bookroom this year. Or whatever. > The complaint may be valid, but before griping you ought to question > it from a broader perspective. ("but that's not the NDP way" :-) A perfectly reasonable observation (which I have noticed myself) answered with an aggressive and sneering reply ("not the NDP way" -- who said anything about the NDP?). What's your problem, Tim? As for the substance of it, the dollar argument would apply in the case of West German or British texts, but most are either Canadian or American, and the Cdn dollar has remained between 73 and 78 cents US for a long time, so that can't make much difference. In fact, over the last year or so, the Cdn dollar has been higher w/r/t the American, which would make US texts cheaper. As for bookroom subsidies, that wouldn't affect textbook prices at other bookstores, which have also gone up by a great deal. I think a study of textbook inflation is a great idea. Price fixing can (and does) happen in a free market and any big increase is at least a cause for reasonable suspicion. This is something that student lobby groups like the OFS would, one hopes, look into. In terms of explanations, I remember seeing a pamphlet from a publishers' association explaining it in terms of printing costs, editorial costs, and the fact that books are out-of-date sooner (and thus have a shorter life over which to recoup editorial costs), but whether or not those factors justify the observed increases is still a very good question. Peter Rowley Univ. of Toronto
lamy@utegc.UUCP (09/15/87)
Not to forget retaliation on trade issues by putting a tariff on books. But
seriously, the Bookroom (what a name) is a bit on the expensive side,
especially for special orders. The record may be a book that sells for 38.00
US when ordered direct from the publisher (Ablex). The price here, and that
was more than a year ago: 86.00$.
The lesson is clear!
Jean-Francois Lamy lamy@ai.toronto.edu (CSnet,UUCP,Bitnet)
AI Group, Dept of Computer Science lamy@ai.toronto.cdn (EAN X.400)
University of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4 {uunet,watmath}!ai.toronto.edu!lamyil@utai.UUCP (09/15/87)
tjhorton@ai (Tim Horton) writes: >... from a broader perspective. ("but that's not the NDP way" :-) I have been called many things in my time, but never, never NDP. I'd like to state for the record that: 1. I have no opinions about: a. Canada withdrawing from NATO b. Nationalizing of Canadian banks c. Rise or fall of TSE VSE index on election of XXX govt. d. Price of doughnuts/cookies that are always fresh. 2. I thought books were expensive. Can't even talk about books without drawing in politics.
gh@utai.UUCP (09/15/87)
In article <8709151410.AA24491@ephemeral.ai.toronto.edu> lamy@ai.toronto.edu (Jean-Francois Lamy) writes: >Not to forget retaliation on trade issues by putting a tariff on books. The tariff has been repealed, has it not? >But seriously, the Bookroom (what a name) is a bit on the expensive side, >especially for special orders. The record may be a book that sells for 38.00 >US when ordered direct from the publisher (Ablex). The price here, and that >was more than a year ago: 86.00$. (1) The Bookroom has been known to make "mistakes" here. I ordered a book recently that was us$45. They translated that to cdn$96. When I pointed out that that couldn't possibly be right, it became $64, which was a little cheaper than I had expected. (The usual rule is to add 50% to convert us dollars to cdn, taking in both currency conversion and, cross-border shipment and customs clearance costs, and the local distributor's cut.) (2) Often, the problem is with the local distributor. John Wiley & Sons Canada Ltd are particularly bad in the size of the cut they take, e.g. us$50 -> cdn $112. Of course, they are dealing with low volumes of highly specialized books, whose market may in Canada is maybe ten to fifty units (and just hundreds world-wide). (The Ablex distributor is Fitzhenry and Whiteside; I have no direct experience with them.) (3) J-F is correct, however, that one can often save money by ordering directly from a U.S. publisher, even after paying postage and handling and the costs of a bank draft. However, some U.S. publishers won't accept Canadian orders; they just bounce them back to the Canadian distributor! (John Wiley is an example of this.) -- \\\\ Graeme Hirst University of Toronto Computer Science Department //// utcsri!utai!gh / gh@ai.toronto.edu / 416-978-8747
migod@utcsri.UUCP (09/18/87)
While it is probably a good idea to order directly from the publisher if possible, you should realize that the U of T bookroom is not your only option. Many stores will do special orders for you, even if it's a text. You might consider trying Britnell's (on Yonge just above Bloor). They will order books directly from US and British publishers at minimal cost (and fairly quickly.) Most mainstream bookstores are hesitant to deal with texts because they make much less profit on them (the bookstore gets about 40-50% of the purchase price of a non-text as compared to 15-20% for a textbook.) However, most stores will special order them in the interest of good customer relations. Avoid the big bookstore chains as: (a) Some won't order except from Canadian publishers/distributors. (b) The bigger the organization, the more likely that they will screw up/lose/take a long time with your order (c) They'll hire just about anyone. Anyone offended by (c) should note that I worked for Classics Bookshops for five years (and you can draw your own conclusions about that :-). -- "I am not a free man...but I'm reasonable!" #6. Mike Godfrey "Truth is only that which is taken Department of Computer Science to be true. It's the currency of University of Toronto living." migod@utcsri.toronto.edu Tom Stoppard (formerly mgodfrey@utcsri)