[ut.general] UofT vs. UT

brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca (Brian Glendenning) (10/16/88)

Has anybody else  noticed that U. Texas articles are making it into ut.general,
e.g. message-id <3580@cs.utexas.eds> (which also got here with a mangled header
2 other times). These articles jumped here by being crossposted.

Is there anything to be done? Or are we forever twinned to our American 
cousins? (Would excluding these articles contravene the free trade agreement?)
-- 
	  Brian Glendenning - Radio astronomy, University of Toronto
brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca uunet!utai!radio!brian  glendenn@utorphys.bitnet

henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (10/16/88)

In article <1988Oct15.202940.7959@radio.astro.utoronto.ca> brian@radio.astro.toronto.edu (Brian Glendenning) writes:
>Has anybody else noticed that U. Texas articles are making it into ut.general
>... These articles jumped here by being crossposted.
>
>Is there anything to be done? ...

Geoff and I have thought about this at considerable length.  It is really
hard to do anything useful about it, especially if you believe (as we do)
that changing headers is a vile perversion.
-- 
The meek can have the Earth;    |    Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
the rest of us have other plans.|uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu

dave@lsuc.uucp (David Sherman) (10/16/88)

henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:
>>Has anybody else noticed that U. Texas articles are making it into ut.general
>>... These articles jumped here by being crossposted.
>
>Geoff and I have thought about this at considerable length.  It is really
>hard to do anything useful about it, especially if you believe (as we do)
>that changing headers is a vile perversion.

Speaking as an, um, outsider (OK, don't ask why I get this group
at lsuc:-), may I suggest the solution is in the newsgroup name?
It would cause a bit of internal upheaval, but surely not too much.
Everyone knows UofT (see Subject line hereof) for what it is; why
not create groups uoft.general and friends, arrange for a changeover
and then rmgroup ut.*?

David Sherman
-- 
{ uunet!attcan  att  pyramid!utai  utzoo } !lsuc!dave

migod@csri.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey) (10/16/88)

In article <1988Oct15.202940.7959@radio.astro.utoronto.ca> brian@radio.astro.toronto.edu (Brian Glendenning) writes:
>Has anybody else  noticed that U. Texas articles are making it into ut.general?

I mailed to one of the UTexas posters (his name was Dan Dvorak) pointing this 
out.  He was amused and promised to take it up with the Unix people at his end.


-- 

Mike Godfrey				
Department of Computer Science	         "I am not a free man...
University of Toronto			  but I'm reasonable!" #6.
migod@csri.toronto.edu

flaps@dgp.toronto.edu (Alan J Rosenthal) (10/17/88)

dave@lsuc.uucp (David Sherman) writes:
>Everyone knows UofT (see Subject line hereof) for what it is; why
>not create groups uoft.general and friends, arrange for a changeover
>and then rmgroup ut.*?

well, possibly university of texas is uoft as well.  unless it isn't, having
two names which are different but whose structure means the same is a bad idea.
perhaps utor.general?

hogg@db.toronto.edu (John Hogg) (10/17/88)

In article <8810170518.AA09866@explorer.dgp.toronto.edu> flaps@dgp.toronto.edu (Alan J Rosenthal) writes:
>
>dave@lsuc.uucp (David Sherman) writes:
>>Everyone knows UofT (see Subject line hereof) for what it is; why
>>not create groups uoft.general and friends, arrange for a changeover
>>and then rmgroup ut.*?
>
>well, possibly university of texas is uoft as well.  unless it isn't, having
>two names which are different but whose structure means the same is a bad idea.
>perhaps utor.general?

Having worked with somebody at U. of Texas in past, I can assure you
that they call themselves UT.  We joked about this distinction.  If
we rename ourselves uoft, we will certainly be clear of them.

Of course, we may then collide with some other institution, such as
the University of Tuktoyaktuk.  (No, *don't* bother following up on
that.)

On the other hand, how much do we care?  There aren't many foreign
postings that show up here.  I can only remember one other, about a
free cat to a good home, and that should have been restricted in
distribution anyway.  It hasn't been clear to me that the entire U.
of Texas cares about Next either, so the current case is perhaps
more a poster error than a system bug as well.
-- 
John Hogg			   | hogg@csri.toronto.{edu,cdn}
Computer Systems Research Institute| uunet!csri.toronto.edu!hogg
University of Toronto		   | hogg%csri.toronto.edu@relay.cs.net (arpa)
				   | hogg@csri.utoronto (bitnet)

lamy@ai.utoronto.ca (Jean-Francois Lamy) (10/17/88)

University of Texas is UT, as in UT Austin.  Back when we were utai I remember
people at UT answering requests for software with "well, since you're on
campus, I might as well give it to you on a diskette" :-).

Similar confusion arose in the canadian domain naming scheme, with U de
Montreal and U de Moncton both being called UdeM in their communities.  Maybe
using utoronto would be wiser?

Jean-Francois Lamy               lamy@ai.utoronto.ca, uunet!ai.utoronto.ca!lamy
AI Group, Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4

brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca (Brian Glendenning) (10/18/88)

In article <8810171428.AA10349@rumba.db.toronto.edu>, hogg@db (John Hogg) writes:
>On the other hand, how much do we care?  There aren't many foreign
>postings that show up here.  I can only remember one other, [...]

As the perpetrator of this discussion I have to agree that it probably isn't
worth the bother to rmgroup/newgroup all u*t groups. I was wondering if there
was some way to filter them out at the campus entry points. I couldn't think
of any, but I'm an acolyte, not a guru.

Of course if someone like MES gets an account at UT that might be a different
story.

[Maybe I should crosspost this to comp.lang.c so our friends in Texas can
 join the discussion. :-) ]
-- 
	  Brian Glendenning - Radio astronomy, University of Toronto
brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca uunet!utai!radio!brian  glendenn@utorphys.bitnet

dave@lsuc.uucp (David Sherman) (10/18/88)

brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca (Brian Glendenning) writes:
> [Maybe I should crosspost this to comp.lang.c so our friends in Texas can
>  join the discussion. :-) ]

Heh heh.  I'm gonna set up my sys file to forward ut.* to ut-sally,
just to make life fun for everybody :-)

David Sherman
-- 
{ uunet!attcan  att  pyramid!utai  utzoo } !lsuc!dave

henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (10/21/88)

In article <1988Oct17.234916.19842@radio.astro.utoronto.ca> brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca (Brian Glendenning) writes:
>... I was wondering if there
>was some way to filter them out at the campus entry points...

It's not theoretically impossible, but it's very tricky in practice.
Especially if you want it to administer itself, bearing in mind that
there is no central entity keeping track of local network topology.
(What are the entry points?  How do they tell where an article came
from?  Just what *are* the boundaries of the campus?  What about an
article which goes out and comes back in?  And so on...)
-- 
The meek can have the Earth;    |    Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
the rest of us have other plans.|uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu

henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (10/21/88)

In article <88Oct17.090831edt.472@neat.ai.toronto.edu> lamy@ai.utoronto.ca (Jean-Francois Lamy) writes:
>University of Texas is UT, as in UT Austin.  Back when we were utai I remember
>people at UT answering requests for software with "well, since you're on
>campus, I might as well give it to you on a diskette" :-).

Fortunately, some of us were alert to this problem when it first started,
and with the lamentable historical exception of utastro, all the Texas
sites are "ut-xxxx" and all the Toronto sites are "utxxxx".  That helps
a little.
-- 
The meek can have the Earth;    |    Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
the rest of us have other plans.|uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu